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Comments

Re: AATHER

[(Anonymous)]

People are going to get that impression as long as we want to stay a small game. We've been trying to find a long term solution to the app pool for months and months and we haven't been able to find anything that will actually work. At this point I just don't think there is a solution to it. It's an unfortunate but necessary side-effect of the game being small. If people take offence to it that's their own problem.

Re: AATHER

[(Anonymous)]

If people take offence to it that's their own problem.

That is problematic (and very aggressive) wording to use in this situation. And honestly, as the others here have pointed out, there isn't much of a difference in numbers between 108 and 124. Nothing about the number 108 is "necessary" at this point in time. The queue is only continuing to get larger. Even when a character gets let in every other week, the queue only seems to get larger. I think this is also in part because role-play moved to DW, making Aather a much more attractive venue when people are playing there regularly. It's something to keep in mind. The conditions when it was originally decided to stay at 108 are very different from what they are now. And knowing that I am in a game with someone who sees that the queue is "necessary" or the exclusivity as something that people are wrong to feel put off by makes me feel weird. It's just a game. Why can't we make it easier for people to get in?

Re: AATHER

[(Anonymous)]

It isn't exclusivity which is driving the queue being long. I would love to have new characters and new players. It's a massive problem that people can't get into the game easily and people can't try out new characters easily. These are all things I agree with. If there was an actual solution to this problem that didn't involve completely changing the way the game functions as a game then I would be on that so fast I would be a blur. You are absolutely correct that there isn't much difference between 108 and 124 and that is exactly my point. I don't have a problem with expanding the game if we're doing it because we aren't satisfied with the current atmosphere with only twelve teams, but it isn't going to fix the queue. If it would fix the queue I would be all for it. I want it to be easier for people to get in as much as everyone else, I just don't see this as a solution, and in the absence of other solutions that means there is nothing that we can do to fix it.

If people think that we're being unwelcoming just because we want our game to function (by which I mean not having so many characters that it becomes impossible to run games and no I don't mean 124 characters, I mean enough characters that we have a decent turnover rate even after the new teams settle in and that number is a lot higher) then yes, that is their problem. The queue is a massive issue that causes people a lot of trouble and means we don't get as much fresh blood as we could, but it's a necessary evil to sustain this kind of game. It's not an indication of our attitude to new people and it shouldn't be taken as such. Especially considering the frequency with which we have debates about trying to fix it.

If I had any solutions for making it easier for people to get in I would be throwing them at the mods right this second, but I don't. That is why we can't just make it easier for people to get in.

Re: AATHER

[(Anonymous)]

You are assuming it will not fix the queue with your own biases. How do we know that? The queue is currently at 43. Minus 16 characters, we bring it down to 27. That is not ideal, but it is better. The last time I believe we got really concerned about the queue, it was around 30. This is 13 over that. I personally think 27 is a more manageable queue, but I even saw tonight in places that several teams have players absolutely not planning to drop. That cuts out seven times however many teams without players not planning to drop for a while. That limits it. If we bring in new teams, that opens things up. You are saying it will not help the queue problem, simply because Iolite and Carnelian's expansion nine months ago (I might be wrong about the time) did not change things. That was partly because, at that time, the teams were made when summer was coming. I believe that affected the queue. I highly doubt there will be another flood in the queue, and if there is, can you explain why we shouldn't consider even more teams?

Why should "necessary evil" ideals come into play when it's a role-play? Why can't Aather adjust? AJ intended for this game to be a small game, and look at how much it has ballooned. Instead of being stuck on stabilizing, why don't we focus on moving the game forward? Why can't it evolve? The game is stable. That is actually part of the problem. And honestly, you can say it is not an indication of the game's attitude to new people, but people wanting things to "stay the same" will always have unfortunate implications and side-effects.

Re: AATHER

[(Anonymous)]

There are practical reasons why roleplays set up around team and community interaction and driven by player-run oocly-coordinated games twice a week or more should stay smaller than freeform jamjars.

Re: AATHER

[(Anonymous)]

All role-plays are set up around community interaction. Games like Mayfield place characters into houses and they are expected to interact with people in their houses. Aather is no different on that front than most games on DW. You are expected to talk to people and get to know them, develop, and integrate within the setting. Actually, Aather makes it easier due to the slower time compared to other games which typically move on a 1-to-1 ratio on day movement. I am not saying we should welcome in another 200 players. I just don't see why 16 more is not viable.

As for the game running, there are solutions for that, too. Ask players to not play all their characters. Double-up teams. It is rare that everyone in the game (and therefore on a team) can or will make a game anyway. When it does happen, then factors can be set. I do think there are solutions for this if they are looked for. Again, it's not adding six more teams. It's adding two.

Re: AATHER

[(Anonymous)]

I don't want things to "stay the same" arbitrarily. All I want is for the game to remain small enough that running games is doable and it retains the small town feeling where people know each other. That's all. If it gets so big that those things aren't possible then it won't be the game that we apped into anymore.

All that's needed for the queue to still be an issue is for the rate of apps to exceed the rate of drops. Whatever maths you throw at it, if people are apping faster than they're dropping then the queue will grow. When's the last time you saw a game that wasn't dying that had the same amount of apps as drops? That's why the queue isn't going to go away.

Re: AATHER

[(Anonymous)]

All I want is for the game to remain small enough that running games is doable and it retains the small town feeling where people know each other.

The number of characters that actually know everyone else is very, very limited. I highly dislike this argument because it's not valid for most of the characters in the game. As some other people pointed out, adding two teams wouldn't even ruin that.

Re: AATHER

[(Anonymous)]

new anon. I completely agree with this anon. Aather is a small game; I apped into it as a small game and I want it to remain a small game. I would absolutely love to play with new people in Aather as the game exists now, but I don't want to change the game enough to facilitate extra-fast movement through the app pool. It's not exclusivity in any sense, it's wanting the nature of the game to remain more or less where it's at a manageable level for everyone playing and modding right now.

The mods could have closed apps a long time ago and I would have thought that was a reasonable decision. They chose to continue accepting apps with the caveat that you might wait months to get your character into the game. People app knowing this. I don't think anything is wrong with that except that it seems to be creating the expectation that Aather should change to the number of apps rather than the number of apps allowed changing to suit Aather.

Re: AATHER

[(Anonymous)]

I don't think it is ever a good idea to close apps on a game that people are interested in playing in unless there is a plot reason to do so. In a game like Aather, what would have happened if a slot needed to be filled? Or in a team like Citrine, which rotated slots a lot, what would they have done when they were left without anyone? What about Turquoise near the beginning? That's not a viable solution and I don't think "closing apps" should ever come up, especially since people express interest in the game.

There is "waiting" for a month, even, and then there's waiting in a forty-three person-long line not certain of the conditions of when you will get in. You might like the smaller game, and there isn't much of a difference in these numbers. No one is expecting you to have CR with all 108 characters in the game; that certainly would not change if we went from 108 to 124 or even to 140. (The last number is theoretical; I am not saying we should go to 140 anytime soon.) Aather was created without any idea of the direction it would go on. However, its existence and playerbase met it with a heavy amount of enthusiasm. I think curbing that would be a bad idea. Opening it up a little more is never a bad thing.

Re: AATHER

[(Anonymous)]

I wouldn't suggest closing the app pool permanently by any means, just till the queue was at a more manageable size. Ironically, this would have the exact same effect numberswise as if new teams were put into place.

If part of why you apped was because you liked the game small -- if part of why you continue to feel comfortable there and comfortable running games there relies on it continuing to be small -- yes, opening it up a little more can sometimes be a bad thing. The way these discussions inevitably go is starting to make me resent the fact that more people want to join my game because I feel like I'm being told that I'm the one whose feelings on the matter are my own problem (I agree with other anons that that was a harsh wording), which is an extremely sad commentary, since I love playing with new people.

I like Aather small and I think that it runs better on various ooc and ic levels as a smaller community. I also agree with the above!anon that opening more teams up would probably not remain a viable pallative for more than a month or two. I have a problem with trying it just to see because I do see it as one that has the potential to change elements of the game which I love and find unique to it, partly because it's so easy to find panfandom games with the potential for unlimited or less-limited expansion.

Re: AATHER

[(Anonymous)]

...No. It isn't their own problem. It makes me very uncomfortable that you think that way.

Re: AATHER

[(Anonymous)]

Okay, I'm aware that saying what I said is a dick move, so I'll put it this way: Maybe there is more that we could do to show people that the reason the queue exists is because we can't think of a better way out of it rather than we don't want new people. Thinking of better ways to explain the queue and the reason it exists so that people don't get the wrong idea and think it's because we hate new people is a productive line of thought. But it isn't the existence of the queue itself which is causing that problem inherently.

da

[(Anonymous)]

wow... i hope you figure out a way, because as someone game-hunting, you guys are looking like children stomping their feet because they don't want all these new people flooding in and ruining their super secret club.

it's really offputting to read all of this.

+1

[(Anonymous)]

Every time someone explains a solution, it's quickly shot down by people not wanting change.

Re: da

[(Anonymous)]

Aather has to be careful about expanding because the entire RP revolves around extremely frequent player-run events that become harder and more stressful to run the more characters are in the game. We don't have a cap just for the sake of it or to be secret or anything, we have it because we wouldn't be able to function as an RP if no one was willing to run games. Some gamerunners are already feeling stressed even with 12 teams, and the more we increase the harder it gets. A flood of new characters literally would destroy the game structure, it's not just a case of throwing a tantrum. We basically need to work out the largest size that we can expand to while not alienating most of our gamerunners.

Re: da

[(Anonymous)]

A flood of new characters literally would destroy the game structure

Except for the part where people have continuously pointed out it hasn't. Perhaps the solution we should be looking for (and I fully intend to point this out when we have our OOC discussion) is how to make gamerunning easier now and after new teams are in play. That's the discussion we should be having. For me, new teams are a foregone conclusion. Also, saying new teams "literally would destroy" is somewhat dramatic considering that has never been the case. Furthermore, we could always look to Sabra's game running and see how they successfully managed this. There are ways of coming around this. We should not be too stubborn to see it.

+1

[(Anonymous)]

As someone who really wants to join? The feeling I'm getting is "This is our club and we don't want you here!"

It's fine wanting a small game, but really. :\

Re: +1

[(Anonymous)]

I'm really sorry you feel that way, because as one of the people arguing against expansion, I absolutely love new players. I just want you to -- yeah, maybe after more of a wait than it would take to get into other games -- be able to enjoy the same game experience that I'm enjoying right now.

+1

[(Anonymous)]

Given some of the people that play in this game, that attitude doesn't surprise me.

[(Anonymous)]

I don't read that from what anybody is saying here, honestly. If the game could immediately accept every new player that applied immediately without it impacting the playstyle of the games, I think everyone would be totally open to that. It would be pretty much ideal! But at the moment, not possible, so everyone is just trying to work out a solution where there isn't really one—it's not a matter of shooting things down for the hell of it, and while people obviously have strong feelings one way or another it's for logistical reasons and because the game is important to them, not because they don't want new people ruining their super secret club.

+1

[(Anonymous)]

I went and looked at the game premise and stuff and definitely felt like I'd be interested, but I understand that keeping the game small is kind of necessary to keeping the premise as as it is. I kinda admire the mods for holding firm on that too.

Re: da

[(Anonymous)]

NPCs run huge game-wide events nearly every single week that involves all teams competing to gain memories. If there are too many teams it gets to be a large burden on the NPC players, basically, and less interesting events start happening. This is the main reason why people are interested in keeping the game population capped, and I'm really sorry that some players are turning you off to the game.

Re: da

[(Anonymous)]

i don't understand why every team needs to be involved every time, or like the anon above said, twice every week?! while that's admirable, if you really wanted to find a solution, you would. there's no ifs, ands, or buts about it. there are ways to let your game grow without destroying it. things would be a little different, yes, but saying it's impossible is silly.

you need to close your apps if you don't want to change it. don't cocktease shoppers and slap us in the face at the same time.

+1

[(Anonymous)]

This.