rpanons | something big going down in clown town

something big going down in clown town

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persona 5 royal is 50% off on steam, do i buy it? the only things i know about it are "jrpg" and "really good reviews" and "lots of people in dwrp play from it"; i generally enjoy rpgs and games focused on characters, so my impression is that i will probably enjoy it, but i dunno

We don't know your personal tastes. Follow your heart.

yes

no, it's the worst of the only 3 persona games that matter. i am a hater and will dissuade anyone from this tropey garbage that's all flash no substance

asking genuinely, not to argue or anything: which of the persona games is your favourite? and what did you dislike about 5? asking cause i mostly see people rave about how good 5 is so i'm curious!

it's a bit of a toss-up because i think the storyline of p4 is better but the characters of p3 are better. together they'd make the perfect game.

for transparency, i'll tell you i dropped it a little after the pyramid/futaba's dungeon. keep in mind that when this game came out, and when i played it, the BLM protests were at their height and that definitely colored my experience. should it considering it was made by a foreign team? probably not, but it is what it is. game still sucks.

the combat of p5 is fun and flashy but it isn't that different from p4. once you've mastered the gameplay of a persona game you've mastered them all, so all that's left is characters and storyline. i've played p4 more recently so i will mostly compare to it.

you know how in persona 4 the character struggles feel ahead of their time and actually offer some commentary on the state of society and the process of mourning? be prepared for NONE of that in a way that's new or refreshing. the story tries to force an identity on the MC that doesn't make any fucking sense. the guy has no rizz because he's a blank slate but it pushes this narrative that he's a ~thief of hearts~ and ~heartbreaker~. i honestly can't even remember a lot of the characters deals, ryuji? hates his mean teacher? yusuke's just a weirdo who wants to draw art of his naked female classmates? futaba's just a suicidal neet with hackzorz skills? instead of characters facing themselves and growing it feels more like "here's our sexy mc man, he'll go into your brain and give you a ~change of heart~ so you're all fixed!" like snapping someone out of a trance instead of, you know, making them confront their actual flaws.

the whole point of the story felt like it was supposed to be "kids don't have safe adults anymore" but didn't want to properly commit to being anti-authority in any way that was actually satisfying. i recall multiple times the characters being like "we should go to the police actually" and then eventually they work with(?) a detective that's one character's older sister in spite of being like "no the police are bad actually"? like it was SO wishy washy

i said it more succinctly earlier, it's just all flash no substance

da, agreeing with this 100000% other than putting p4 on a pedestal; p5 makes pretty much everything look like literature by virtue of being so unabashedly shallow, but p4 was... not great itself. it definitely tried, though! which is much more than p5 did. it feels like a gradual downward gradient since p3, which had clunky execution, but mostly commit to what it was trying to say (basing this off the original p3, i have not played p3r).

>the guy has no rizz because he's a blank slate but it pushes this narrative that he's a ~thief of hearts~ and ~heartbreaker~

lol yeah i can't stand the p5 protag

p3 and p4 obviously also had protags that were meant to be wish fulfillment blank slates for people to project onto, but at least they felt like they could be coherent characters nonetheless

as someone playing persona 3 reload and, frankly, bored by the story and characters i disagree. i find myself missing the updated gameplay of persona 5 and am considering revisiting it for that reason. the dungeons are just fun, yes you run into issues when replaying because the layouts don't change but frankly the rng floors of p3 and p4 are not actually better. they're not unique, they're not interesting, and they offer a copy/pasted experience

at least in persona 5 i found the heist segments engaging. the eng voice actors are all great. i do take issue with some of the characters and how they slap their own plots in the face (whoever went "hey, what if we go over a teacher harrassing his female students, including a party member, and then in the very next arc have another party member want to paint her nude for ~art~" is shit), but p5 is a solid experience just like p3 and p4

i also have to point out that p4 wasn't as ahead of its time as you might think (and i'm saying this as someone who liked p4 more than p3 and p5). yes, some of the issues tackled weren't highlighted in other games but there are many segments of the game that haven't aged well (the constant jokes about kanji that come across as homophobic, for example)

you are also misremembering the character's arcs/misconstruing them a bit (yusuke does want to paint ann nude, this is completely dropped later and he's just kind of a weird artist guy who is lacking in self-awareness. futaba's issues deal with her mourning her mom, feeling responsible for things that weren't her fault, and issues with her uncle as well as trying to be less dependent and work through her agoraphobia)

the whole point of the story iirc wasn't "kids don't have safe adults anymore" but "the system is corrupt and there's no way to fight against it, especially as a kid/teen." they also very briefly try to do a "power corrupts" arc using one of the party members and one of the social links, though they quickly brush it under the rug

ia there are things p5 does not do well, i just don't really agree with most of the other stuff you said

adding to this since i forgot: it's okay to have dropped it if you weren't enjoying it, especially at a time that was very stressful for many people and with so much going on in the world. i can definitely understand why p5 didn't land especially in that timeframe and in no way mean to say "oh, go play it," because if you didn't enjoy it then i doubt you'll enjoy it now

only that while there are genuine criticisms to be made about p5, the game is ultimately "just ok" same as the other persona games

i totally don't understand anyone putting p4 on a pedestal especially with how poorly that game has aged since the writing for a lot of it was uncomfortable when it was new. It's like all of Atlus' bad, homophobic/misogynistic takes compiled in one game.

p5 also has uncomfortable writing in places so i'm not denying that but it at least it's playable without feeling gross about it.

The characters in 3 are not any better or worse than the characters from 4 or 5. They're just a different flavor of okay.

SEES is a really high conflict team compared to the IT and PTs. When the game starts most of them have someone else in the group they clash with, half of them don't even like you, the player character, and only a few of them actually care about SEES's mission. It takes a really big portion of the main story and their individual social links before they start to feel like an actual team. And if that's the sort of arc you're into, it's great! SEES having to gradually build towards a sense of cohesion might be a really satisfying story for you.

But constant infighting and jealousy subplots made me hate most of the party members. I struggled to feel invested in the main story because it felt like it was just me and 3 other characters making any sort of effort to see things through. By the end of the game I was even tired of the characters I did like couldn't wait to be done with the whole group for good.

I found the casts of 4/5 more engaging because not only did that actually all seem to like each other, but they all had immediate and very obvious personal investment in the main story. Neither group had as many internal conflicts, but I found the ones they did have way more interesting because they felt like fights between friends who really cared about each other and their goal, rather than a bunch of bitchy coworkers who barely tolerate one another agruing over who does or doesn't deserve a promotion. And I'm sure to plenty of people that sounds boring as hell and they'd rather have a team with more friction.

The writing isnt brilliant in any of the 3 games, but acting like one is objectively better or worse than the others is just silly.

da but god i couldn't stand p4's cast sometimes. sure they may not have hated each other deep down, but when they were pricks to each other, they were almost maliciously so, and it just left a bad taste in my mouth that a lot of it was just laughed off because it was all intended to be a gag. p4's chie spending yousuke's years of savings just to be petty as a gag was just as bleh as p5's everyone beating up ryuji for not being dead like they thought, never mind all the constant homophobic potshots and casual "ewwww perv!!!! *kills u* *kills u* *kills u* *laugh track plays*" gags littered throughout p4 where the cast just gets real mean and nasty at each other.

i know they're meant to be funny and obviously i did not find them funny so maybe i'm just not the audience for it, but at least p3 cast's conflicts were based in character arcs that eventually more or less resolved, and even if it wasn't always my cup of tea, it didn't make me groan the way p4 cast's catfighting did. p5's cast... are barely characters after a certain point (around the point where the game's vague gestures toward theming falls apart, which iirc is like the halfway point?) so i guess they don't hate each other, but they aren't exactly super engaging, either.

i agree that none of the p3/4/5 games are better than the others, though. i just wanted to point out that p4 and p5 suffer from rough writing perhaps the most, whereas p3 is more just "okay" i guess and (at least iirc, correct me if i'm wrong?) less often a pain to watch due to bad/weird/lazy writing choices and offbeat execution of humor. love it or hate it, p3 seems bad or good on its own merits at least, i feel like?

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for all that p5 peters out on its antiestablishment and authority theming about halfway through, i absolutely hated the way p4 ultimately handled its supposed themes of self acceptance the entire way through. it very much reads 'conservative older japanese writers try to write a story that's superficially about struggling with how one's self makes them not fit in properly...' then flubs the landing hard and ends up in 'ok but now actually that you know about yourself a little more and accept it as a part of you, bury it again only with more self awareness so you can be a productive member of society'. ultimately i don't rank it any better than p5 in terms of 'bless their hearts, they made an attempt but didn't remotely commit.'

i also suspect the uncomfortable writing that was already showing its flaws back when it came out might not have aged super well, as well, but can't really say for sure since it's been a long time since i played p4.

sa

(Anonymous) - 2024-03-22 18:24 (UTC) - Expand

gotcha! i haven't played any other persona games, so i don't have the comparison, but i appreciate your opinion nonetheless, and also the way you describe p4 has bumped it way higher on my to-play list

You're either lying to make the game sound worse, or you managed to miss all of the most basic details about the story and characters. Either way I don't think you're a reliable arbiter of quality.

mte

I was willing to give them some leeway when I started reading since it's not a perfect game and they admitted to not being in a good place when they played it. But the more I read, yikes.

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> thinks p4 is the best one

yeah no thanks, your opinion doesn't matter. p5 still sucks but is infinitely better than p4. THERE'S your tropey garbage with added waifu cringe nonsense. seriously? P4 IS BETTER?? bruh

Re: ayrt

(Anonymous) - 2024-03-27 21:40 (UTC) - Expand

go for it, steam lets you refund games you've played less than two hours, and that's enough time to give a pretty good indication of what's to come, keep it if ya dig it. just be aware it can deal with some pretty heavy subject matter, like suicide, sexual assault, child abuse, etc., if you're not big on those.

ohh yeah that's a good shout, i completely forgot about the refund option! i don't mind any of those topics, but i do appreciate the heads up. thanks anon!

I really loved persona 5 and enjoyed the hell out of it. it is a 'flashy' game and my main complaint I think is that it in some ways suffers from a premise that's all about taking on and dismantling horrible well entrenched institutions and not necessarily having a payoff that matches that theme, but otherwise? for me personally a 9/10 game with great characters and fun gameplay. and it's also esp fun if you like the thought of visiting and hanging in urban parts of Japan, esp Tokyo and shibuya.

do you like thoughtfully-written characters and themes that are declared and then followed up on? does a lack of well-written exploration of these elements affect your enjoyment of a game? then no, you probably won't like it

do you just want to shut your brain off and have a good time and watch the visual equivalent of a fireworks show with a couple snazzy ideas tossed in here and there? then sure you'll probably like it

here's the back of the book blurb for you without going into how well it is or isn't written or how it compares to the rest of the series:

Teens who have been repeatedly failed or let down by society and or the adults around them if not outright abused by them discover the magical power to make the worst offenders repent/confess to all of their sins/turn themselves in for actual prosecution, etc etc, loudly and publically. Vigilante action ensues, with their 'superhero' (they leave phantom thief style calling cards for their targets) personae eventually developing a parasocial fanbase. Complications and ethical and moral quandaries also arise, culminating in... well, you find out! Or not.

buy it. it's not a great game but it's also a must-play for anyone who likes rpgs. if nothing else, it's nice to look at

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