poops efficiently from the butt

[socksuke_uchiha]

Rundown: rpanons is an anonymous community for role-play related topics. This place serves as a forum for game discussions, canon discussions, RP solicitations (ATP, game ads, open memes), and advice. The occasional off topic comment is inevitable, but please keep heated social and political topics to their respective communities. Posting them here will only get them frozen. Subsequent threads made to bypass a freeze will then be deleted.

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Comments

-1

[(Anonymous)]

and they need to develop coping strategies that aren't "make someone lay it out for me personally in tiny words every single time"

Re: -1

[(Anonymous)]

I'm (non-sarcastically) wondering if there are some game mods or former game mods throwing shade in this discussion. Some of the replies are so snarky and bitter. Did you have a playerbase you hated? I know that sounds like a bad faith question, but I'm actually serious.

Re: -1

[(Anonymous)]

...of course there are mods and/or former game mods in the discussion. mods are the ones who would actually be impacted by this bullshit, and we're also the ones who actually have the experience to know that 1) it is, in fact, complete bullshit and 2) just how much it would add to the modwork load for no actual benefit to a game.

you're getting the pushback you've decided is "snarky and bitter" because you're basically the random uninvolved asshole bumbling into someone's workspace to spout off "brilliant ideas" that, you know, were obvious, considered, and discarded because they wouldn't work, and suggesting we all double the hours we spend on work a week. except we're not actually paid for this shit at all.

Re: -1

[(Anonymous)]

if you don't like modding. quit.

Re: -1

[(Anonymous)]

da

"the mod(s) are selfish and won't hand the game over to a new mod team and now we all have no place to play. wah"

if in fact the mod tries to pass it over and no one takes them up on it, they still get shat on for not trying harder to please their playerbase.

if they pass it over to a shittier mod team

"the original mod gave it to shitty mods and this isn't the game i apped into and its all their fault waaaaaaaah"

mods can't just quit, and when they do because it's too much, they still get residual backlash because them quitting affected others and it's their fault for trying but not trying hard enough in the first place.

da

[(Anonymous)]

You can't think like that, it's extremely unhealthy. Like, genuinely if you're a mod and that's your thought process please step away and prioritize yourself at that point.

Re: da

[(Anonymous)]

i'm not (anymore), but i've seen the complaints against a variety of mod teams for various reasons. mods can't just 'quit' in the eyes of the entitled and the vocal. sane, logical, well-rounded players are usually understanding and rational about it. they get it and they don't make a mod stepping down for any reason a problem. it's the other players that are usually one of the reasons for mods wanting to quit that make them just trying to quit an issue. there's always something that they have to complain about, from not quitting soon enough to who they handed it over to or who they didn't hand it over to or not putting in enough effort or dragging it out or just disappearing or whatever.

the type of player that's going to dig on a mod for not modding anymore is going to do it regardless of the reason. because this is a generally faceless hobby, and for some reason, it attracts a lot of entitlement. mods don't get paid. most of them take personal time to come up with a game idea, comms, layouts, navigation code, coders, colors, themes, rules, faq, and all the things that go into setting up a game, which can take months just to build and set it in motion. and when they open it, there is an inevitable barrage of people that are mad that x rule applies to them and it's a new game and they can change it if they want and it just goes on from there. it's a constant battle with some players or potential players, along with anon comms and bad players or passersby. don't get me wrong, there are good/great players that make it a joy to mod for. but persistent players of the bad variety just wear it down and make it not worth it after awhile. and then the mod has to choose what to do when they've reached that point where they've put so much of themselves into a game for other people to enjoy and it's sucking the fun out of rping for them.

this is solely on the bad player types. the ones that conveniently forget that the faceless mod they're dragging or nitpicking or demanding things from is doing this for free. there's no obligation there to stay. or give in to anyone. but the pressure to be ~professional at all times when dealing with a playerbase is suffocating. it's like retail, but with no pay. customers/players can scream at and berate mods and be ugly, horrible human beings because 'they're servers/here to serve me', but mods/workers have to grin and bear it because it's their job. only it's not really the mod's job, but holy shit will they get lambasted if they actually say things in the same tone some of the players take with them.

even here, you have people calling it pa if mods point out about the faq. i will never mod again. i will never help someone mod their game again. the stress i had was such that i couldn't see myself willing to do that for a paying job, let alone a fun recreational free hobby. yes, there are shitty mods out there and i'm not denying that. but the shitty players far outnumber the mods, and it makes it not worth it. after modding, i'm no longer surprised there are so few games out there anymore. we've cut off our noses to spite our faces with mods, and players need to stop looking at mods as fun dispensers and/or parents.

bit of a vent there, but jesus. i see people crying over lack of games all the time and i feel the same, but it's not like we didn't do it to ourselves. be nicer to your mods and maybe they'll actually want to mod.

Re: da

[(Anonymous)]

Man, I am sorry you had such a disturbing time. You clearly felt a lot of stress and pressure.

It really sounds like there weren't healthy boundaries. Maybe too many DWRPers don't respect that concept either. That could be something to discuss in the unofficial 'mod handbook' and how to cope before it becomes a scenario like you've described.

Basic rights
I have a right to say no without feeling guilty.
I have a right to be treated with respect.
I have a right to make my needs as important as others.
I have a right to be accepting of my mistakes and failures.
I have a right not to meet others’ unreasonable expectations of me.

From: https://www.healthline.com/health/mental-health/set-boundaries

Re: da

[(Anonymous)]

some of these comments are extremely strange. who is saying mods can't quit? if anything, most of our recent mod wanks have been about mods who seemed to be over-involved in things that people felt were none of their business (i.e. ex-game mods reaching out to another game), not that they stopped modding? i feel like i am reading an entirely alternate universe headcanon playing out here.

OP

[(Anonymous)]

so i started this discussion because i am a mod and i intend to go on being a mod, I just wanted to talk some opportunities and tools for making the job easier for everyone. i'm kind of saddened to see some other mods here chiming in only to be defensive or cynical. i get it though. it's frustrating and thankless a lot of the time. it's hard to hear ways to do our job better from people who don't do it. but treating even non-aggressive conservation with your (potential) player base like you're being attacked isn't helpful either.

i work all day in software and i know devs aren't always right. no matter how good they are or how slick their work is, user testing makes things better. understanding how user interact with what we make is important to me. users have unique insights we often overlook in our focus on other objectives. so while i'm glad to see other mods are taking part in this discussion please don't take a random anon's experiences and suggestions as anything personal here. i'm pretty happy with how earnest this has been so far.

more importantly though, if you really feel like you "can't quit" this hobby for some reason, you should really sort that out for yourself. im not being snide here, that doesn't sound healthy and i don't know if that's more a personal issue, something inflicted by the specific community you're giving your time to, or a side effect of social media platforms in general.

boundaries are a good thing for everyone.

Re: OP

[(Anonymous)]

you sound like a pretty rad mod.

if i had to conjecture, i believe some people see discussions like this as automatically negative due to the medium. some people just really dislike anon communities. i understand this perspective. i respect it. but then the solution is to tune them out, step away, and go offline, not go where you know you'll see discussions about these issues and try to twist comments into something they aren't.

Re: OP

[(Anonymous)]

I am 'write your info better' anon!

I am a technical writer at [insert company that does cloud service shit]. (I also used to be a dev previously.) I think the software field has some really great skills involved that lend themselves to modding: problem solving, organization, cooperating remotely, etc.

I also man a feedback queue, which don't get me twisted I realize a.) I'm being paid to tolerate those shitty comments b.) there is a larger barrier between myself and customers vs mods and players. At the same time I think I've also learned a lot more about how to calmly look at feedback and think about what's really actionable in it.

Are there any other skills from the field that think are beneficial?

sa

[(Anonymous)]

To include library service anon: are there skills from your position that you think are beneficial?

Re: OP

[(Anonymous)]

honestly, if your game is public, i would highly, highly discourage, if not outright ban, anonymous reporting on players. that is essentially inviting anon comms and speculation to come into your game.

maybe there is some instance where rl abuse or something genuinely dangerous is involved, but falling short of that, anon reporting opens the door to a lowered burden of proof. also, how do you investigate claims if they're anonymous? i see comments about how mods got something on players from 3-5 years ago.

if someone submits you something from years ago, you need to be able to follow up to see why the person believes the individual in question is still a problem. you can't do that if the report is anonymous. if you follow up and the proof submitted is inconclusive, tell the reporters what burden of proof is required. you don't need to make a big song and dance about how you'll be watching the player in question and i would try to minimize the public reaction actually. the point is ensuring claims have been properly investigated, and that means making the players talk to you directly.

[(Anonymous)]

As the anon who made the 'if a lot of people are misunderstanding/misreading then maybe the fault is with what's written' I want to first say: geez, that sure went places I wasn't expecting.

Anyway, I agree with the idea that you need to set boundaries. And anyone who can't probably shouldn't be a mod...or shouldn't be the mod of the sort of game they're modding right now.

It's like cooking. I love cooking. I love food. If I worked in a professional kitchen I'd either quit in a week or someone will stab me with a chef's knife. I know this because I know someone who went to culinary school and now works in kitchens and the stress level in that work environment is intense.

Similarly, being passionate about RP and wanting to share a game idea with others isn't the same as having the sort of personality that is good for modding. There is no such thing as a perfect player base. My first modding experience was very good. But I still had to deal with players complaining about who I gave plot roles too (they were really excited about possibly getting a limited slot but I gave it to someone who hadn't gotten RNGed for any thing they'd signed up for for the last few events), a ban and also mediating cast drama. It happens. At the end of the day, you have to be able to ask yourself: did I do my due diligence? And if the answer is yes that has to be enough. It has to be because if you take everything to heart it will make you unhappy. It's not about being thick skinned or thin skinned. Some people just naturally cannot distance themselves from these things.

And if you can't then you may not be suitable to run a large, public game.

But you know, returning to the kitchen analogy. Not being suitable to be a chef in a professional kitchen doesn't mean you can't do anything related to food. You can run a food truck. You can do catering. You could volunteer to cook at schools. You can cook just for small family events.

Similarly, you can run a private, invite only game. You could cap your game at 30, 60, 80 or 100 players. You could give yourself mod office hours.

You can be on anon comms if you know you can look at it objectively. You should not be on anon comms if you know you can't.

Know what sort of pressure you can take and choose the way of modding that works for you.

And if you find that things are not working and you're getting burnt out or you boundaries are not being respected...then try to figure out why that is and change things accordingly.

Re: -1

[(Anonymous)]

i like nodding just fine. the suggestions in this thread are just dumber than dogshit, karen.

[(Anonymous)]

then don't take them? that's the beauty of suggestions.

or die mad about it.

Re: -1

[(Anonymous)]

so... why are these bad ideas? "this is bad because i say it's bad" isn't an argument. you're getting pushback yourself not because people distrust you had poor experiences as a mod, but because you aren't explaining why setting boundaries with a player or players isn't feasible, why it wouldn't work, or let alone why it's somehow complete bullshit (??).

as one of the people who was acknowledging how bad RPers can be towards mods, i would not diminish your experience with your playerbase. but anon, when you come onto a thread saying boundary-setting is deranged, that more than anything is going to make people wonder wtf attitude you took with your players.

you or another game mod mentions dealing with whiny and entitled players. where and how were the players being whiny and entitled? were they complaining often on plurk or the public game discord? was there a lot of anon negativity? how did you address the complaints? did you tell the players no or say something to them about their attitudes? did you lay out a clear idea of what kind of behavior is unacceptable and will result in strikes or bans?

as mentioned, players have a tendency to see themselves as customers, but there are also times when a player complaining about the faq or an event may be confused or may not mean any harm. so how bad was the complaining and what did you do to clarify or address it? players aside, did you make it clear when you disagreed with specific complaints against your game? if i'm running a werewolf furry game and a bunch of people app in complaining that werewolves suck, i'm going to clarify the premise and wait for those players to see their wait out. they can't force me to rewrite it into an au grimdark harry potter game through their sheer will and if everyone is doing that i might wonder why and try to address the issue more directly. if it is intense enough i might need to address it a bit more explicitly, bc why are 30 of my players agitating for this alternate premise?

if it's one or two players, they just apped to the wrong game, but if many players seem to think they're in the wrong game all the time, i would begin to want to address this more explicitly, bc then it begins to sound like a possible miscommunication about the premise and mods as well as player attitudes. in fact this also just seems like a basic thing to need to address, because if you, a mod, start deleting references to werewolves because of these 30 players with weird expectations rather than continuing to clarify the premise and maybe figure out why these players are in a game so contrary to their expectations, you are not going to get new players in the next app round who respect the original premise. you are going to get players whose expectations align with the modified premise. and you're shooting yourself in the foot if you really, really loved your premise and never wanted to change it, because of course the new people are going to be less into the premise if you change it to suit the old crowd rather than better figuring out why the old crowd was fighting it to begin with.

there are many variables there and the answers to these questions would go a long way here. right now, you are coming off as contemptuous of rpers. if you had that bad of an experience of a mod, you have to step away for a bit, because as nicely as i can say this, you will never be treated respectfully as a mod if you are contemptuous of the people you mod. maybe you went in with a good attitude and people were so rude that your contempt has grown and you can only hate dwrpers right now. but seriously, no one wants a mod who hates them, no matter how much you think they're self-evidently loathesome. that more than anything is mod 101.

Re: -1

[(Anonymous)]

your idiotic amateur psychoanalysis would come off better if you were responding to the right fucking subthread, sparky.

Re: -1

[(Anonymous)]

These comically aggressive responses just need to be ignored at this point. The rest of us know the goal of this conversation and see value in it.

Re: -1

[(Anonymous)]

+1. you're not the mod of anon communities. you're the mod of your game. the more important thing is what you are telling people while logged in.

i do not play in prisma. however, i admire the way the prisma mods handled the many threads about a certain player. without naming names or trying to place blame as to who was pointing fingers at the player, they clarified the rules around reporting. eventually, the player received disciplinary action in another context, and i think they left the game. either way, they are gone now, but at the time, there were some real satisfaction with how this was handled. you can never ensure it won't come up again. that's just how people are. but many of the threads noticeably died out. many people were noticeably pleased.

that is a much better approach also than trying to argue with the players on the communities. you don't know what these players saw or thought they saw. you can only insist they provide real evidence, but you can't insist they change their minds about some private interaction you weren't a part of.

[(Anonymous)]

... how in the world does players talking about mods or mods talking to mods or mods talking to players sound like "uninvolved assholes" coming into someone's workspace? this is such a weird analogy because it implies players are outsiders and your game is just your personal project.

i mean, if you want to run your game exactly a certain way with no player input, that's fine, but you also have to say that upfront as well.

[(Anonymous)]

because players are 99% of the time not mods and have no fucking clue what modding involves. you can give input, but you're going to have to accept that a lot of your suggestions aren't going to be implemented because they will not fucking work.

and by accept that, i don't mean argue endlessly about how having mods post itemized lists of what they did for modwork each month is good and reasonable, ackshully.

[(Anonymous)]

... the place to tell people their suggestions don't work for your game is in the context of your game. that's the point people are making again and again. if people in your game are giving you advice on how to run it and you do not appreciate their advice, tell them that. Where is the contradiction here?

[(Anonymous)]

> and have no fucking clue what modding involves.

this right here feel to me like you resent people way to much to be modding.

most of us have varied histories in lots of different internet communities and rp comms on DW are not so fucking unique and complex that someone with half a brain can't extrapolate to see how it's run.