bakuwustreet

[socksuke_uchiha]

Rundown: rpanons is an anonymous community for role-play related topics. This place serves as a forum for game discussions, canon discussions, RP solicitations (ATP, game ads, open memes), and advice. The occasional off topic comment is inevitable, but please keep heated social and political topics to their respective communities. Posting them here will only get them frozen. Subsequent threads made to bypass a freeze will then be deleted.

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Comments

(frozen comment) Re: LETTERS YOU'LL NEVER SEND

[(Anonymous)]

it's okay to do that, though. it might make you uncomfortable, but things making you uncomfortable doesnt mean theyre bad, it just means theyre not for you. just tell them you arent into trans content of that character and dont play it with them.

sometimes trans aspects are just a part of kink and as long as your rp partner doesnt treat real trans people as objects and doesnt disregard your boundaries in regards to kink, then it's fine for them to do what theyre doing. it's ALSO fine for you to feel uncomfortable and not want to participate in it.

(frozen comment) Re: LETTERS YOU'LL NEVER SEND

[(Anonymous)]

+1 to all this. I'll never forget how on the same day I had two different trans friends (who did not know each other so they weren't vaguing) talking about the same thing and how one was going on about how much he loved it and it made him feel desirable and sexy and fantastic he wants 100 more!! While the other was like "Well I just had my dysphoria triggered and went into a depression spiral for the whole day and need to take like 40 showers."

(frozen comment) Re: LETTERS YOU'LL NEVER SEND

[(Anonymous)]

i feel like this is a huge thing a lot of people who play trans hcs need to be honest about in dwrp-- a lot of people are 100% just in it for the kink factor, which is totally fine when written in the way you've described. but there's a huge difference between a character who's trans getting laid (or even laid kinkily!) and someone who's explicitly just really horny about trans bodies and only wants to talk about trans stuff in the context of sex, kink, and fetish and basically never at any other point if they can help it (which i have encountered A Lot, especially in private games)

it's the difference between agreeing to smut with any female character vs one of TLH's pussy-poppin breasts-boobily hentai girls. just be honest! it's okay!

(frozen comment) Re: LETTERS YOU'LL NEVER SEND

[(Anonymous)]

Showing my age, but it reminds me of 00s yaoi era. Straight (or closeted) people didn't always want to engage with gay men as like, people, they just wanted the edgy drama of taboo and saw m/m as more of a fetish vehicle.

(Disclaimer I am not a "gay trans men are fujoshi fetishists" person or anything like that!)

As the culture relaxed around mlm, and people learned more about both lgbtq subjects and their relationship to their own gender and sexuality, I think there is less moral outrage over people wanting to fetishize two dicks smanging. People get the difference between actual activism and gay smut. I'm hoping that's what happens with trans issues/chatacters/fetish too.

(frozen comment) +1

[(Anonymous)]

well said. i very much want to get to this point where trans characters are treated with the same casualness we treat sexuality headcanons. examining myself some of the discomfort (and honestly dislike) i have with current common trans hc trends is trans hcs are;

1) they are applied to characters that are gender non-conforming, which ends up reinforcing male/female gender binary norms, which is reductive and regressive and bad actually. often these characters' entire crux, growth, and values are because they are gender non-conforming. making them trans does a huge disservice to that and it's REALLY frustrating to see someone tout out a trans hc because a woman is a little buff, so obviously she must have been born with a dick and transitioned or whatever, and then crow about how progressive that is and you're automatically transphobic if you disagree.

2) minor frustration is trans hcs are by their nature more physical/visible than sexuality hcs. as a castmate, it means i might have to recton my character as either always having known they were trans (if for example they were siblings and grew up close/saw each other's bodies naked at some point) and justify why they never brought it up or talked about it or whatever feelings they may have had about it. in an ideal world it won't be anymore of a big deal than "oh you're gay/bi/pan/whatever, ok, moving on" or maybe i get to examine any castmate feelings in retrospect (which might be fun!) but, we have to be on the same page about it first. it's less ambiguous than a sexuality and puts the onus on the castmate to carefully and graciously process the transition (regardless of character values/influences), or, you know, you're automatically transphobic.

(frozen comment) +1 to this

[(Anonymous)]

i like your points a lot and would like to add a lil bit to them

1. cis people fucking up the gender binary is good for us & may even encourage us to view gender more like a spectrum than a binary like we do with sexualities. as a result we may see less pressure to "pass" with a certain, nigh-unobtainable threshold of beauty (on either side) while also, hopefully, continuing to make it less and less clear for bigots who is trans and who is a cis person just having fun. it's important to have this in fiction and irl

2. i think it'd be more compelling to see trans hc as more like "they're still an egg at start but this game/jamjar/memloss au and removal from their original society is what helped them realize this about themselves" instead of "trans all along". this way you're not reworking/altering/retconning the past but instead working on fresh new development for your character. this potentially is less disruptive for castmates - especially for childhood friend or "spent 10yrs on the force together" types of cr

(frozen comment) Re: +1 to this

[(Anonymous)]

I'm nayrt and I will always be against trans headcanon because there is nothing you can do with a trans headcanon that you couldn't do better and with more respect for actual trans people if you made an OC instead.

There is no such thing as trans headcanon because what you are describing is an AU. That is why it only belongs in PSLs and other private RP and I will keep saying this every time this topic comes up because this is something that doesn't need to change.

Characters who are trans in canon or trans OCs are fine because they are fully established characters who also happen to be trans. They aren't established cis characters someone has made trans arbitrarily for funsies.

1. Cis people help fuck up the gender binary by creating and appreciating more diverse cis and trans original characters. Normalize cis characters who do not fit into the traditional gender binary and you will get what you're hoping for. Destroying the gender binary is good for everyone! Experimenting with how someone presents themselves and how they view their own experience with gender is something you can do as a cis person without co-opting the trans experience and everything that goes with that.

The worst part of trans headcanon besides people using gender dysphoria and gender angst for playtime is that if a character "passes" perfectly the only way that information will ever get out ICly is to out the character in some way so everyone finds out, which fucking sucks, honestly. What value has been added? It only reinforces the idea to trans people that even if you pass in every way someone will find out about it and your past will always haunt you (for the drama).

2. You could do this but you're forgetting that what a lot of people don't want to interact with is people working through their gender headcanon shit in games. The fact that you want it to have no basis in the character's background to avoid screwing your castmates means it is even more likely to be fabricated on the whims of someone who wants to play that out in a game for attention's sake because most people who do this want to write out the angst. Thinking people should legitimately bring headcanon like that into a game and force their cr to speed run their character's gender awakening is absurd.

Trans headcanon is not the same as sexuality headcanon and never will be. It isn't about acceptance, it's about fundamentally changing a character at the base level that adds nothing to the experience (which is why it's an AU). I can have my character interact with a newly awakened bisexual and never have who they're kissing ever come up, whereas someone actively transitioning after being in the game for 6 months forces me to acknowledge and accept that and have my character process that. You're not just affecting potential or actual castmates, but everyone who may ever interact with your character. Don't be surprised if most people opt out.

Headcanon in a game should never be anything everyone is forced to accept. Headcanon is deciding your character likes tacos or filling in the blanks about little things that don't contradict canon. Being bisexual instead of heterosexual is allowable headcanon because it does not force everyone to accept it for our characters to have cr. If you shackle your character's growth and story arc to your trans headcanon, you're forcing it on everyone because it's not headcanon, it's an AU.

FYI, if someone writes an app and brings a character into a game with the intention of whipping out all that "fresh new development" only once they're in the game they're an asshole who tried to sneak an AU in past the mods, likely breaking at least one rule.

(frozen comment)

[(Anonymous)]

da and i agree with most of this. no problem with canonically trans characters or ocs written as trans from the start. headcanon is annoying and you're right that it's better described as au.

writing a character realising they're trans in game is even worse because it'd cause friction if other characters are written as anything other than instantly understanding, accepting and 100% supportive, regardless of how ic that is for them. it's one of those topics that is oocly sensitive for lots of players and can be triggering or lead to hurt feelings. i don't want to hurt anyone, but if my characters have a different understanding of gender or are tactless or villainous i don't want to have to play them ooc over this either. i also don't want drama over opting out of the trans character because they're trans.

so yeah, if your trans headcanon comes out midgame i'm quietly dropping that cr.

(frozen comment)

[(Anonymous)]

this argument kind of assumes that the player was referring to being in games when i assumed they were talking about psls, though. there's literally nothing wrong with trans headcanons in psls/memes no matter how respectful or disrespectful it is. if you don't like it or it makes you uncomfortable, you don't have to play with it.

RP isn't an avenue for activism and representation for most people. it's just a place to play with fantasies. I do agree that in a game a sudden trans headcanon might cause issue, but i've also been in games where it actually really... didn't. So like, ymmv. But on top of that, we were given no indication that the op was talking about a headcanon being played in a game anyway.

(frozen comment)

[(Anonymous)]

That's why I said very intentionally that the only place for this is in PSLs or private RP.

Multiple anons in this thread mentioned hoping these headcanons would go the way of sexuality headcanons and be treated casually in addition to suggesting how they might be altered to make them less impactful for castmates who have known each other for a long time since the usual argument against them in games is how they negatively impact other people.

I assume if you do a PSL with someone and they play your castmate you are both on the same page with a trans take on the character and so why would you need to bait and switch them so the trans stuff happens only after they're in the game? Assuming OP meant this in relation to games isn't much of a reach.

(frozen comment) +1

[(Anonymous)]

da, agreeing with all of this, but i only have something to add to #1, and that it skeeves me out as a trans person every single time i see this happen in a game. idgaf what people do in their private psls, but parading around transness as a "reveal" and using it for angst and drama is so...

it feels weird, because i don't think i've seen a trans headcanon treated respectfully in dwrp. (conversely, i have seen some excellent portrayals of canon trans characters and trans ocs! keep rockin, y'all.)

when it comes to these headcanons, it's either literally just the player's kink, it's deeply discomforting in every way you've described, or--even worse--it's a trans player basically self-inserting their own angst and trauma and seeking therapy and validation through their character and these trans reveal/trans angst/transphobia arcs, and dragging in CR/cast/other player plots into it. dwrp is usually pretty strict on discouraging ooc bleed and touting ic=/=ooc, but when it comes to someone's lived experiences, players so often whip out a "oh you must be transphobic against ME then" to get a pass to project. at least self-insert in a psl instead of in a game if you really kin with your blorbo that hard.

(frozen comment) Re: +1

[(Anonymous)]

you just put into words how i feel, it's the whole "using rp as therapy" thing

(frozen comment) Re: +1 to this

[(Anonymous)]

-1

Not going to pick apart all the absolute bullshit in this deluge of bullshit, but suffice to say that your little better and with more respect for actual trans people crack right at the very start gave away that your entire comment was gonna be shit. Because no "actual trans people" have trans headcanons, right? This shitty attitude of "how dare any characters be played as trans because it forces other characters to have to engage with transness ew ew ew" isn't offputting to any trans people at all!

And of course you or some other dumbass is going to immediately move the goalposts and pull the fun card that got old over a decade ago and go "no but TRANS people with trans headcanons are shit because they're just projecting and that's indecent and rude and pathetic and they need to hide away with that shit!" This is how it always goes. Trans headcanons are awful and just cis people harming trans people my making them see their disgusting gender essentialist fetishization in public oh wait whoops that player's trans I mean that trans person is harming other trans people and making everyone uncomfortable by making them see their disgusting and probably gender essentialist embarrassing projections.

Grow the fuck up. They're dolls and people are writing stories about them. Your breathless concern-troll handwringing about how oh no that dolly had some character development and now MY dolly might have to call that one "he" instead of "she," this is a bigoted and creepy injustice of the ages, is part of why DWRP is stuck years behind the rest of fandom when it comes to pulling out bigoted canards about how unacceptable the LGBTs are. It was pathetically embarrassing back when you were all going into a froth about anyone daring to play M/M with ~straight characters~ in sex games and it's pathetically embarrassing now that it's trans shit that's got you all flinging yourselves onto your fainting couches.

(frozen comment) Re: +1 to this

[(Anonymous)]

you can get mad and accuse people of bigotry all you want, we're still not going to rp with your shitty trans headcanon characters.

the emotional reaction to people disliking it is part of the reason why. nobody wants that drama if they say the wrong thing about your dolly.

(frozen comment) Re: +1 to this

[(Anonymous)]

hmmm

(frozen comment) Re: +1 to this

[(Anonymous)]

love trans people like this, making those of us who would prefer to be cis (just in the correct body) feel like shit even within our own "community"

(frozen comment) Re: +1 to this

[(Anonymous)]

this is so many words just to express that you're not creative enough to come up with a trans oc or play a canonically trans character

(frozen comment) Re: +1 to this

[(Anonymous)]

yeah you definitely seem like the kind of chill and sane person who totally wouldn't blow up in paragraphs at other players if their characters react the slightest wrong way to your precious untouchable headcanons

(frozen comment) Re: +1 to this

[(Anonymous)]

let's talk trans 2 trans anon. how bad did your trans reveal plot go over in a game and how bad did you blow up on plurk when people were uncomfortable you were using it as a replacement for therapy

(frozen comment) Re: +1 to this

[(Anonymous)]

I ain't reading all that but the good news for you is that memes and PSLs still exist for all the AUs — trans or otherwise — that aren't allowed in most games.

(frozen comment) Re: +1 to this

[(Anonymous)]

people in real life: hey man how's it going

(frozen comment) Re: +1 to this

[(Anonymous)]

i feel like all that ever happens with this kind of thing is that more people have knock down drag out wank about the hypothetical of anything that could happen with trans characters than have any actual rp of/with of trans characters

(frozen comment) Re: +1 to this

[(Anonymous)]

i've rped with a lot of trans hc characters in 15-30 person private games and unfortunately there hasn't been an exception to all of the players being wanky and causing huge issues (like derailing threads to be about gender, public meltdowns in the game discord, and bullying players into rewriting their tags to be appropriately uplifting, sorts of issues) over it. i'm not sure about everyone else, but i'm speaking from actual and tangible experience that's currently populating my discord blocklist

(anyone who asks for "who" gets gently smacked with a stick. comm aside, details from such small games would immediately out me.)

(frozen comment) Re: +1 to this

[(Anonymous)]

+1000

(frozen comment)

[(Anonymous)]

i'm not at all interested in playing a cis character as trans in game or really otherwise, but it does really suck that if you want to play a canonically trans character your options are severely limited and further limited if you're not interested in playing a trans character whose whole existence revolves around being trans. yes, you can come up with an OC instead, but playing an OC for most people isn't as fun as playing a canon character since you miss out on having a cast. which: tough, that's the luck of the draw, but it does make me have empathy for people who want to play these characters and i wouldn't necessarily mind them being ingame with me.

but trans people aren't inherently "fucking up the gender binary." if you play batman as a trans man he is still a stereotypically manly guy. similarly, wanting to play a trans character isn't necessarily borne out of some kind of desire to make a sociopolitical statement about gender, or of a desire to subject uninterested participants to gender dysphoria infodumping. i think people frequently do this nonetheless, and that's annoying and bad RP etiquette, but bad RP etiquette isn't exclusive to people playing trans characters.

i also really don't think it's fair to assume that everyone interested in playing a trans character is "working through their gender shit" or that necessarily this will even come through in the character. or that they want to play a trans character for "attention's sake".

some of them are, and some of them are interested in playing them in a fetishy way, and i think they should be more honest with themselves about that. but i also think there are a lot of people in the anti-trans headcanons crowd who aren't being completely honest with themselves. i think a lot of people who maintain that it's really only about ICness just doesn't want to rp with trans characters because they don't like them, or it makes a character they'd normally be interested in shipping with less attractive in terms of smut and romance since they're here for cis/cis shipping.

but nonetheless, +.5 because i think some of the things you describe are pretty common with cis characters played as trans and i don't like them either. however, much like any other instance of an RPer being annoying in some way, i do think it's far more easy to navigate around though than people pretend it is short of a blanket ban (not pursuing CR with them at all, brushing past it/not focusing on it in your tag, putting gender stuff on your permissions in some way, talking to their player, etc).