rpanons | he neEds To taKe cAre of tHe mEMes whiLe tHat MaSTer is aWay

he neEds To taKe cAre of tHe mEMes whiLe tHat MaSTer is aWay

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exactly. every time i see someone try to play tony as not liking established military/prisons, i just headshake and wonder if they even watched the movie.

i think they get that from im2, where tony tells the military to fuck off when they tell him to hand over the suit

but they're also missing the point where in that particular situation, that doesn't benefit him. of course he's going to tell them no. i'm not a guru of the character or anything but imo if cooperating would've gotten him what he wanted or benefited him somehow, he probably would have, because he's opportunistic and likes to stack the deck in his favor. being anti-government or anti-establishment has nothing to do with it, he's all about results.

also, there's that whole "tried to create a superhero registry" thing. a registry that would've handed the full names and personal details of supers over to the government/tony himself/whoever to keep tabs on them.

even in im2, it wasn't so much 'fuck the military/government' because he had a contingency that allowed rhodey to take the suit. so he just wanted to control who had access to a weapon that he built. tony's a character type that doesn't really think of the consequences until he's slapped in the face with them and made to feel guilty. he didn't care about selling weapons until they were used on him and he lost a person he'd wound up liking/respecting. he didn't care about how off the rails the avengers got until it affected him when the mother of the sokovia victim came up and bitched him out. tony's a childish genius character that is essentially almost on the spectrum with how he can lock on to one thing and ignore the realities of the situation until someone makes him feel them.

and then he opts to make it all his way instead of compromising. he's a complex character that can be hard to play because people tend to latch on to one aspect of him and overplay it instead of balancing him.

did he try to do the registry thing in the movie? been a while since i watched civil war

obvs he did in the comics but now i'm wondering why the x-men/brotherhood didn't come down on him like the fist of an angry god

he was pro sokovia accords and part of the whole idea of registering people which is why cap took his stance against him. registering people for existing was a 'bad thing' when he was first made a soldier, so he'd clearly be anti-registry. tony was definitely pro accords, and most of his team make up were people that didn't have abilities themselves. and he still had to recruit a kid, which i can't believe he actually did, tbh. sure, drag a super powered teenager into the mix and then act surprised when he tries to go out and do things, dangerous things, on his own when you're not watching.

but that's a whole other can of tony worms.

can i just say that that's the one thing that pissed me off most about homecoming?

if tony would've just TOLD peter that he was taking him seriously about the alien superweapons issue and looking into it rather than blowing him off and ignoring him before turning around and yelling at him for getting involved (since he didn't know tony was already involved and had absolutely no reason to think so) then the whole dramatically taking the suit away thing wouldn't even have had to happen. ffs.

i'm glad the next spider-man movie is going to have peter striking off more on his own without a mentor. i like tony as a character but he's absolute shit when it comes to managing anyone that isn't himself.

tony can't even manage himself. that's the problem. he's always struck me as weirdly bipolar and childish in that he needs an adult to make him do the things he doesn't think about or doesn't think is important. i mean, for a guy that wanted his dad to tell him things and be upfront with him about the reality of life, he's following in those mysterious footsteps by just not telling peter the truth of anything and expecting him to just jump when he's told.

also, peter doesn't need another father figure and having tony worm in because we didn't get to see uncle ben (yet) and tony's just suddenly daddy impromptu because hey, cool suit, it just reads weird to me. tony's not responsible enough to be a guardian for a kid. he gave him a suit that has instant kill functions on it. whether there were training wheels on the program or not, he still basically handed peter a nuclear bomb and just expected the safety being on to be enough of a deterrent.

i swear to god, if people in these movies would just talk to one another, a lot of shit could be avoided.

if characters in movies communicated like actual functioning human beings, there wouldn't be a movie

i accept this is a fact of life but it still sucks that so many writers have to fall back on this to make their stories work

yeah, exactly. i get wanting the dramatic GIVE ME THE SUIT scene to build peter's character (getting him to realize that the superhero stuff isn't the most important thing in the world and start focusing on his personal life/the people he's been shitting on) but i hate it when characters have to be stupid because the plot won't happen if they're actually capable human beings for more than ten minutes

peter: hey, people are selling weird alien weapons and also a guy in a robot vulture suit nearly killed me.
tony: okay i'll look into it.

THAT WAS ALL THAT HAD TO HAPPEN.

and ia that tony as a father figure is weird, he's more like the cool uncle that lets you have doritos for dinner and listen to limp bizkit when your actual parents aren't around.

i just want to say that as a flatlander i have no idea what's been going on for the last, like, 4 hours

There's a reason Pepper has to manage all his shit, he's bad at doing it himself.

ahh gotcha. i was remembering tony's stance being more or less an honors system thing going forward + the current avengers all signing their allegiance to the UN or whoever, which cap objected to because he didn't want them to be used to enforce political agendas. or something. the proposition of an actual registry slipped my mind somehow, oops

nah, the sokovia accords had nothing to do with registering people with superpowers. the registry was a shield thing that predated the sokovia accords by literal years, like it was a plot point in the first couple seasons of agents of shield.

i know that at least in mcu, half the x-whoevers have been licensed by different studios and can only be used by that studio for however long, making a gigantic team-up movie impossible

i do know that the registry did get off the ground in the comics, at least, because (i'm pretty fuzzy on this, so ymmv on accuracy) when norman osborn got access to the registry, tony deleted all entries except for his own. might've been during the dark avengers thing?

oh yeah i know there's all kinds of licensing snafus with the x-characters, i was thinking more about the comics (which anon below outlined for us)

idk about tony deleting any records but i do know that the registry led to the avengers initiative/camp hammond being implemented and a bunch of superpowered kids being trucked in under dubious circumstances (siccing war machine and a bunch of fighter jets on a girl with flight powers who wasn't even harming anyone, for a start)

gg tony

you're not playing tony ic if he isn't somehow shitting things up for somebody else, lbr

let's not even get into planet hulk/world war hulk territory. "hey we very important smart people decided that you're too dangerous so we're going to shoot you off into space so you can't bother us, thanks", which ended up in... hulk eventually coming back pissed off and wrecking everything, great job illuminati.

does anybody remember exactly how sakkar ended up getting bombed anyway? i know earth was involved which is why hulk came back to wreck shit, but i'm fuzzy on exactly who/why it happened

iirc the ship that was used to shoot hulk into space had a nuclear something or other that exploded and killed his wife

cue hulk's raging assfury

killed his wife AND his son, who magically survived because rad hulk genes and went on to quench marvel's daddy angst thirst when they couldn't do it with wolverine and daken because wolverine was in hell or something

comics are a trip, man. planet hulk was a good run tho.

In the comics, the Brotherhood wasn't really a thing at the time. House of M happened, Magneto was dead (except not really), and mutants as a whole were down to about 200 or so.

As far as the X-Men goes, there was a really shitty tie-in where Wolverine regenerated from being a skeleton, that's about it. When he went to the mansion to shill the SRA, they basically told him to fuck off.

ahh okay, i guess that makes sense. y'know, insofar as comics ever make sense

i'd heard about house of m but wasn't sure exactly what it entailed. and since mutant registries were kind of an issue in a lot of the x-media i've seen i figured xavier and magneto would have had opinions on anything similar

thanks for clarifying, anon

iirc Xavier wasn't around in an official capacity at the time (I don't remember why), because Emma was the one who had a sit-down with Tony and told him to fuck off

the main issue with the x-men was that they didn't have enough people/strength to resist without going full nuclear, and cooperation was the Xavier School's brand, so full nuclear was not an option. this is one of the things that directly caused Scott to kind of lose it later and decide cooperation never benefited mutants

He seemed to have lost his powers so Scott kicked him out of his own house because it needed to be 'Mutants Only'.

he really did lose his powers, they had to be restored by a plot macguffin later

and to be fair to scott charles was being a huge bastard again.

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he neEds To taKe cAre of tHe mEMes whiLe tHat MaSTer is aWay

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