he neEds To taKe cAre of tHe mEMes whiLe tHat MaSTer is aWay

[socksuke_uchiha]

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Comments

[(Anonymous)]

i have no issues with nonbinary haruka as a concept, but the way takeuchi writes her is so blatantly 'well itd be gross if they were just lesbians!' and constant handwringing about how she's 'not like a man or a woman' just because she's butch.

takeuchi isn't some woke slay queen and i really, really wish sailor moon fandom would grasp that, someday. all of the LGBT stuff in sailor moon is based in stereotypes and concepts that were outdated even in the 90s, because she based it on the class-s stuff she read as a kid. Some of it is accidentally good or has elements of good to it, and I'm not going to take that away from her, but come on, understand what you're dealing with.

[(Anonymous)]

i agree that takeuchi is far from a Woke Queen TM, but stuff like calling lesbians/tomboys 'a boy and a girl at the same time' or 'a girl with the heart of a boy' is actually pretty common for the place and time it was written as far as i know (i remember some japanese fans talking about it in response to the nb haruka bullshit), so it's not just her being personally stupid

but yeah manga/crystal haruka essentially genderbending just to create juicy pseudo lesbian drama with usagi is by no means trans representation in any way lol

[(Anonymous)]

ive read plenty of 90s japanese stuff that didn't make those weird summations, so i'm not really going to let takeuchi off the hook for that kind of stuff.

[(Anonymous)]

what about all of clamp's works? fushigi yuugi? there was a ton of stupid gender/sexuality stuff in 90s manga

[(Anonymous)]

I don't disagree? But that doesn't make it not stupid even by 90s japanese standards. Just because something is culturally accepted doesn't mean it isn't seen as stupid by the people it's trying to depict. And Takeuchi was, to her credit, at least using LGBT people as some cool art piece thing instead of just a cruel punchline, which still isn't ideal but isn't as bad as it could be.

I'm saying she's the most -phobic person to ever exist, just, she has some issues, and she clearly has no investment in the inner lines of LGBT people. Heck, even her future husband Togashi was doing better work with a gay couple in Yu Yu Hakusho, at the same time Sailor Moon was running.

[(Anonymous)]

you sound like you have a personal grudge against takeuchi for not personally tailoring her lgbt stuff to your ridiculously high standards. let it go, elsa.

[(Anonymous)]

I... don't? Sailor Moon has elements of good to it. There's just a lot worth criticizing about it. A lot of people think it's unambiguously the most feminist and woke thing ever written.

[(Anonymous)]

oh, please don't misunderstand, i don't care for takeuchi's original depiction of harumichi at all. by my standards, it's all mindnumbingly stupid. but i'm also aware i do not have the standards of a young adult woman in early ninties' japan, and i don't believe it's fair to hold her work to our western views of sexuality and gender twenty-five years later.

[(Anonymous)]

I agree. That's why I'm holding her work to the standards of nineties Japan. By which it is better than a lot of things but still falls short in some areas.

da

[(Anonymous)]

okay but actual japanese people have backed up these points consistently so it really matters dick all what you've personally read.

Re: da

[(Anonymous)]

So, what, the nineties manga and japanese magazines I've read were written by spooky ghosts, and not actual Japanese people?

[(Anonymous)]

could you like... actually name a few of them? beyond hxh?

[(Anonymous)]

HXH was off abot it back in the 90’s too (the prison guess-my-gender part of the exam?), Togashi's writing of Alluka came AFTER he married Naoko Takeuchi.

ayrt

[(Anonymous)]

no, it's just that your digesting of what is likely ultimately a small sampling of japanese media doesn't mean much versus the lived experiences of the people who have corroborated the often weird (by our standards) way Japanese LGBT culture interacted with gender and sexuality in the late 80s/early 90s and beyond.

it literally doesn't matter what you've read contradicted anything, it's not something Takeuchi made up out of whole cloth or couched in some strange misunderstanding of LGBT culture in Japan.

do not pretend you know more about LGBT culture in Japan in that time period than actual Japanese people just because you read some things, that is absurdly arrogant.

Re: ayrt

[(Anonymous)]

you're not the queen of japanese lesbians either, stop getting passive-aggressive when you don't get the asskissing you want so badly.

Re: ayrt

[(Anonymous)]

i never said i was, but i have the self-awareness to understand i don't get to say what's true or not about a culture i'm not a part of. if actual japanese queer people are popping up to say "yeah it was like that sometimes" then fucking listen to them and don't go "WELL IN MY OTHER MANGAS IT'S NOT LIKE THAT" like your weeb ass somehow supersedes their lived experiences

Re: ayrt

[(Anonymous)]

again, you're throwing a passive-aggressive piss fit over not being buttworshipped by me and other anons. your barely-concealed buttfury is hilarious.

Re: ayrt

[(Anonymous)]

what

i dont think any of those words you used mean what you think they mean.

[(Anonymous)]

touch grass, anon. people disagreeing with you on shitty old manga aren't all tantrum-throwing shitbabies

[(Anonymous)]

was this a manga only thing? i found the manga very bland so i never finished. i just rewatched s and stars recently and don't remember haruka being portrayed as anything other than a butch lesbian. usagi did have a line about how a girl should want to be with a guy (it was when she thought her classmate was confessing to her), but i never expect sensitivity from usagi, lol.

SA

[(Anonymous)]

oh shit, anon i'm sorry, i meant to reply to the one above you and forgot to parent up.

[(Anonymous)]

yup, the anime really tidied up takeuchi's messes and fleshed out haruka and michiru fifty times over. the only reason they're considered such iconic gay rep by today's standards is thanks to the anime salvaging it tbh

[(Anonymous)]

that line is actually because that episode was handled by someone besides ikuhara. not coincidentally when he doesnt have direct control of an episode that stuff can vary wildly.

[(Anonymous)]

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