love ur lack of an ic/ooc divide

[rpanonyoda]

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Comments

Re: Kingdom Hearts

[(Anonymous)]

coming from a former diehard kh fan, you are absolutely right about all of this. first game was amazing, with a deceptively simple conceit and a bizarre enough plot mechanic crazy enough to actually work. i played that game as a young teen, and i swear it was magical. second game (which was chain of memories, not actually kh2) was also pretty good--it rehashed old worlds, but it introduced intriguing new villains and a pretty different battle system. kh2 was where the retcons started to show up, and it started to get convoluted with new and unnecessary rules...aaaaand it's been downhill from there. really diehard fans will deny this until their last breath, but the games are just pretty graphics on top of a paper thin, tangled up plot by this point.

Re: Kingdom Hearts

[(Anonymous)]

the plot really isn't that tangled

DA from the first

[(Anonymous)]

It so is.

They needlessly complicated it with nobodies. When people just turned into heartless it was pretty simple and easy to follow. You lose your heart you are a heartless, it makes sense. But now when you lose your heart you become a heartless and a nobody. This is never explained very well. It's just needlessly complex.

There are at least three different versions of all of the characters. Like Sora has his normal version, he was also briefly a heartless, and a nobody Roxas, some how he touches a bit of Ventus's heart so they are connected, he is also Data-Sora, and some how there is Xion who is a replica of Roxas... who was Sora's nobody. This is not complex to you? This was one character and I know I missed something!

Not to mention all the platforms the series has been on. That is a huge problem to even attempt to keep up with the story if you don't want to buy every system out there.

The first Kingdom Hearts was magical and fun to play. I really got pulled into the story and I wanted to learn more about it but unlike the above anon the series quickly lost that magic for me with the Chain of Memories game. I am still curious for Kingdom Hearts III but at this point the series is such a mess I don't know that I will play it.

dda

[(Anonymous)]

"Not to mention all the platforms the series has been on. That is a huge problem to even attempt to keep up with the story if you don't want to buy every system out there."

the rest of your complaint is pretty subjective, but this one is particularly nonsense now because of the HD remixes. Which are fairly cheap, on top of all being on the same console.

Re: dda

[(Anonymous)]

And the point of them too since Square was like. Yeah we need to fix this issue and give the International peeps the final mixes.

Its part of the reason why 1.5 and 2.5 are being released in March as one copy for the PS4

Re: dda

[(Anonymous)]

And don't get me wrong that is a good thing. What I was saying with that line though is that if you were trying to play through all of the games and keep up with the story as it was released it was a difficult thing to do.

Re: dda

[(Anonymous)]

but it's not anymore, so why keep bringing it up

DA

[(Anonymous)]

you are thick. they mentioned the problems they had with the games when they were playing them in the past. just because you didn't have a problem with it and square is trying to fix the problem now does not mean it was not a problem for the other anon in the past.

Re: DA from the first

[(Anonymous)]

don't take any offense to this but have you actually played the games or are you getting your complaints from second hand knowledge?

Re: DA from the first

[(Anonymous)]

don't take any offense to this but have you actually played the games to completion or are you getting your complaints from second hand knowledge?

Re: DA from the first

[(Anonymous)]

Yes, I have played the games.

https://www.reddit.com/r/KingdomHearts/comments/4e59sp/why_the_hell_is_kingdom_hearts_story_so_confusing/
http://www.siliconera.com/2014/12/03/kingdom-hearts-storyline-complicated/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hP5pnlIgmuM
http://forums.khinsider.com/kingdom-hearts-general/150633-kingdom-hearts-complex-intricate-just-plain-confusing.html

These links were from a five minute search on google. Don't make it out like I am the only one who has ever found the series overly complex.

Re: DA from the first

[(Anonymous)]

Doesn't seem like it. And honestly those links don't mean much in general, because I can find just as many links in five minutes disproving that KH is overly complex. It's very dense but not super complex.

The phrase you guys are looking for is jargon heavy. KH is weirdly Jargon heavy even for a JRPG which can be pretty jargon heavy. It's why DDD came with a glossary and a bunch of super important glossary terms and explanations on what happened in previous games when it was made. Because a lot happened and explaining all the Jargon would of added hours to the game.

As someone said down blow nobodies really weren't that complicated at all. Because nobody simply turned into the heartless, and the only onscreen (Not offscreen like in Traverse town) time we see how it happens is with Sora. It was the logical conclusion of the heartless process because if you play through KH, paid actual attention instead of speeding through it, and beat Hollow Bastion you saw that Sora's body straight up disappears into light. Which was suppose to beg the question of what happened to it. It's one of the few things that show that while it may not have been finalized at that point in time, the concept of the Nobody was well within the KH mythos story. The biggest evidence of that is with the original secret ending, "Another side; Another story" and not Final mixes "Another side; Another Sotry~Deep Dive", which during the clusterfuck of words passing through the screen Nobody is seen, right before heartless. You were always suppose to wonder what happened to the body of someone that became a heartless. Yes ASAS/ASASDD was nothing more then conceptual but that doesn't mean things weren't in the process of being made or had been already worked out (with some tweaks in the final product.) And to go a point further, ASASDD made the existence of the Unversed work too since in there it's spefically stated that Nobodies are the Third enemy (With Heartless and Unversed being the first and second).

This one is where you get really subjective and it sounds like you're not paying attention to anything. Yup he was a heartless, it was a bit tearjerker in the original game and was only remedy because of Kairi. Yup He has a nobody nothing really strange here, beyond the fact that Roxas had Blonde hair, but no nobody is a perfect REPLICAAAAAAAAAA of their Somebody. Ventus's heart is within Sora's heart yes, because Sora at his core is a nice guy that really enjoys helping others out. This has been part of his character ever since he was a chainsaw-blade wielding, lion furry. Ven's heart was damaged because Master Xehanort was an impatient dick and really fucked it up when he took Vaintas out. In the one good dede that Count Olaf, I mean Xehanort, does in his long life, he takes Ven to the most peaceful place he could think of so he could die in peace and comfort, Destiny Island. Because something in Destiny Island really likes to lead people (like All three BBS trio) to some form of clarity, the light draws sora into Ven's destroyed heart. So Sora's and Ven's heart have a bit of a heart to heart and Sora's heart does a bit of a stopgap to stop it from crumbling. Now two points on why this isn't confusing. In every game with one before BBS someone has been able to talk to a person in their station of awakening, Mickey to Sora in KH1 and it was either Diz or Sora for Roxas. It's already has a precedent that someone can reach another's heart and help them out there. As for the second part manipulating hearts have been something that keyblade masters can do, even without being trained to use it or the keyblade. We see this in KH1 were Kairi uses it to bring Sora back from the darkness and Riku uses a specific Keyblade to unlock the true power of the QUEEN OF ALL EVIL, MALEFICENT! Sora being able help mend a heart isn't really all that unfeasible, since that's all it was a mending not a fixing. That required Vaintas to go back into his heart for. And considering that Sora's heart would of just come from Kingdom Hearts it's really not that unlikely that he would know how to do it. Sora was never Data-Sora. Data-Sora was based off Sora as Jimmy wrote him down. Ultimately Data-Sora is just a computer simulation of Sora and became the proving point that Sora was strong enough to take the pain and suffering of others and that him getting the 01 keyblade showed that Sora's heart always had the right stuff to make him a keyblade master, like it was shown in KH1 when it abandons Riku again. Xion isn't a replica of Roxas. Xion is a failed Replica of Sora, due to using broken chain of memories that leaked out during Chain of Memories. She was nothing more then a fail-safe if Roxas and Sora proved to be too much trouble. So really, its not that complex. Just reeks of a preson speeding through the game and not paying attention.

It's was an issue at one point and was constantly cricitized world wide. As was the whole final mix thing. Its why you don't see SquareEnix doing that anymore without a decent amount of timing passing. Stop acting like it's a big issue in the year of 2017

And here we have the actual cause of the matter. Nostalgia and I hate anything that is a sequel. Because buddy, KH1 was just as complex as any other game in this series and was just as dull combatwise. Beyond the entire Press X to win issue for KHII, CoM and KHII were praised for breathing the correct type of life needed to make the game play exciting and fun.

new anon

[(Anonymous)]

lol. you can't argue how simple something is with a ginormous wall of text, anon. you just can't.

Re: new anon

[(Anonymous)]

whatever you say "new anon."

But if you break up the "Wall of text" by each individual character it really isn't that big. And sometimes just because something is simple it doesn't mean it has a simple explanation.

AYRT

[(Anonymous)]

dude come back in the morning, actually read what you wrote, and then tell me how simple it all is.

Re: AYRT

[(Anonymous)]

Still simple. Just not that clean paragraphwise.

New Anon

[(Anonymous)]

Oh.. oh honey, there is so much I want to comment on but I'm limiting it to two sections.

You said: "Ultimately Data-Sora is just a computer simulation of Sora" and "Data-Sora was based off Sora as Jimmy wrote him down."

YES.. he was... based on he information that Jiminy Cricket WROTE in a JOURNAL. Now I know the game makes some explanation for how it was all digitized but it makes zero sense. If I wrote a short story about how a bag of marshmallows will become sentient then take over the world and I scanned it into my computer it would NOT create a digital nether-realm where that actually happens. Kingdom Hearts Re:coded was just a cash grab from a popular series.

The other thing I'm gonna take issue is what you said here:

"KH1 was just as complex as any other game in this series and was just as dull combatwise"

Are you kidding me about the combat? The combat in the first Kingdom Hearts was fast and fluid. I personally enjoyed finally being able to play a game like it in real-time. That made it fast and exciting. Not those stupid quick time events they added later. I hate having to wait for the buttons to pop up as it holds my hand through the bosses. It was more like how it would be if you were actually there, and actually fighting yourself. In real life a button prompt isn't going to pop up to dictate my actions.

For the record, I'm not someone who hates all sequels but I'm not going to defend the ones I didn't enjoy.

Re: DA from the first

[(Anonymous)]

As the anon from below: paragraph breaks, anon. They're your friend.

nayrt

[(Anonymous)]

stopped reading at "jargon heavy." my favorite series is xenosaga, which is so jargon heavy each game has its own dictionary that you more or less HAVE to access as you play. i still found it a thousand times less convoluted than kingdom hearts.

[(Anonymous)]

i have no horse in this race but you are coming off as a huge elitist douchebag here with your "if you'd been paying attention!!!!" fuckery

calm down, it's okay if people don't love a videogame as much as you do

Re: DA from the first

[(Anonymous)]

when a heartless takes your heart, that heart becomes another heartless. the body is left behind and becomes a nobody. it's not difficult, it's literally heart = heartless, body = nobody.

sora and kairi are special cases because kairi's a princess of heart, and her heart went into sora at the beginning of kh1.

though honestly you're right. I stopped playing after 358/2 days and reading over the things that have shown up in the games since do seem incredibly complicated. but that's hardly an issue unique to kh, I can think of plenty of canons that from an outside pov the lore sounds needlessly complex. I know I kept up with it fine between kingdom hearts and kingdom hearts 2 -- beyond even keeping up with it, I knew the world lore like the back of my hand. so now the remixes are coming out I've every intention of playing those, and every faith that the lore will start making sense as the games explain it to me.

i can't remember which anon i am

[(Anonymous)]

i appreciate this. but i feel like your explanation actually highlights one of the many examples of plot holes in kingdom hearts:

when a heartless takes your heart, that heart becomes another heartless. the body is left behind and becomes a nobody. it's not difficult, it's literally heart = heartless, body = nobody.

namine should not be able to exist with these mechanics. where did her body come from? kairi's empty body did not become a nobody. riku was lugging it around all throughout kh1. "she's special," yes, i get it. diz and xemnas talk about how special she is until they're blue in the face. it doesn't change that this series literally had to break its own rules just so she could exist.

Re: i can't remember which anon i am

[(Anonymous)]

The same thing happened with Sora too, though. Kairi gave heartless!Sora a hug, and he popped back into being himself. Meanwhile Roxas had existed from the point of him losing his heart. So yes, they broke the rules, but they did it consistently. Sora did eventually degrade to a point where he needed Roxas returned to him, and maybe Kairi would have gotten there too if Namine hadn't gone back to her willingly. Again, being a princess of heart is likely why she didn't end up like Sora when he did.

Re: i can't remember which anon i am

[(Anonymous)]

okay, now i'm confused, because i'm pretty sure--or i was pretty sure--that the implication with sora was that he was still a heartless (the heart) until he merged with roxas (the body) again. if that's not true, i don't know where i got that from, and that makes even less sense than it originally did. bodies should not be able to come out of nowhere!

an idly scrolling by anon

[(Anonymous)]

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THIS EXPLANATION HOLY SHIT

I have been confused about this for like a decade now, and you have successfully clarified things to me. Maybe I was a stupid kid, but I never understood this plot point until now.

I also never played any of the side games besides chain of memories and birth by sleep so maybe I missed something in one of the others that might have clarified this.