rpanons | Unfunny wanky stereotypes

Unfunny wanky stereotypes

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New player here. How do you reconcile book canon with movie canon, considering all the differences and inconsistencies between them? I would pick one over the other if I could but every official source makes it pretty clear that they're meant to be on the same timeline, not AUs of each other.

I don't and treat them like AUs of each other because of all of the differences and inconsistencies you mentioned unless I have to.

I want to do this sfm but all the players I've seen combine them. Hearing that there are other people out there who consider them separate makes me feel more confident in trying it out myself, though.

what official source, anon? to this day i'm still waiting for word of god. the only thing joyce said in the dvd is that each canon inspired each other, which makes sense because they were made at the same time. the books weren't done yet when the movie started.

anyway, i (and most of my cast) also consider them different universes, and for the movies we use the comics by ruftoon as pre-movie canon.

All the official sources I've seen, which admittedly hasn't been too much: interviews with the author, and the official wiki. If there are people playing the way you are, though, that makes me feel better, because movies + Rufftoon comics is exactly what I'd want to do most.

Though now I'm looking for that interview again and I can't find it. Maybe I remembered it wrong and he just said "inspired by" there too.

if you ever find that source, anon, please link it to us so this argument can die. but so far, i know of nothing that proves it.

there are SOME people playing like that. not all. the fandom is divided in that, and the argument never ends. dunno what are your plans. but if you stuck to memes, then that's ok, it's doubtful that will come up. but if it's for games or psls, better sit down with your castmates and talk headcanon.

forgot to add: we do take one or two things from the books to fill in some blanks, kinda like movie-players take some tips from the comics as long as they don't contradict canon.

for example, our tooth keeps the story of her parents to say where she comes from, it's all that comes after that we don't take into account. thief!north is canon by ruftoon.

I'm looking at a game, but there aren't currently castmates in the one I'm considering, so I don't have to worry about that yet. For what it's worth I'd have no problems playing with book canon or mixed canon people, I'd just prefer not to do it myself if I can get away with it.

Full disclosure, I'm considering playing Pitch, and I prefer the movie/comics backstory (that he's a spirit and has always been a spirit) to the book backstory (that he was formerly a good guy who was possessed by fearlings who impersonated his daughter). ... Unless even movie-only players tend to consider that his de facto backstory too even if it's not outright stated; is it taboo to not use the Kozmotis stuff for movie Pitch?

Thanks for your replies, btw! You've been really helpful.

don't worry, you're very welcome! the fandom is kinda dying so i'm happy to see more people around (let's discuss things yes yes!)

sorry to say this, pitch is the main problem in the this whole issue. bunny and tooth you can handwave and say they changed over time (even if i still think things are too different). BUT since YOU are playing him, you are lucky. a pitch won't come and drop the whole I'M ACTUALLY A GOOD GUY thing on you. and as for the others, it's rare to get castmates that aren't pitch or jack. if you get jack, he won't know a thing. only think about it if you get any of the others, and even then you can make a deal of simply not having to talk icly about it.

so yeah, i think you're safe. i also like him better that way so all my love to you.

I don't even think I'd mind if a castmate dropped the bomb on him tbh, as long as the player was okay with my Pitch being strictly movie-only. Basically my main worry is irritating people by playing the "wrong" backstory or timeline, because I don't really know what the norms of the fandom are. Like I said in my first comment, I can definitely adapt and play with the book backstory added in if it's what's expected in DWRP, but I'll admit that I'm glad that that doesn't seem to be the case!

oh, anon, people being irritated by the way you play a character happens everywhere, not only in the rotg fandom. if you don't mind the bomb being dropped on you, then relax and play, and ignore the idiots.

Very true! Thanks for the talk, anon. Who knows; maybe we'll end up playing together sometime.

driveby jack player giving you a pat on the shoulder and agreeing with this excellent anon you've been speaking with here on all points. honestly i've not met any other fellow rotg players that would have much grief about the storyline situation one way or the other, the majority are extremely chill and great about compromising these sorts of issues--and if you do run into any that flatly object, you probably don't need to be threading with them anyway

i hope you have fun playing around in the meantime, though! it brightens my day a bit to see somebody new popping in c:

ayrt

(Anonymous) - 2014-02-23 03:05 (UTC) - Expand

honestly, the books are set so far in the past (steam power isn't even a thing when bunny's eggomotive is built) that there's no problem reconciling the books as an additive to movie canon. iirc there's at least a couple of hundred years' different between the latest fourth book and the 2012 movie, so if your castmates don't mind the mesh then it's simple enough to go for it.

personally i prefer movie pitch with book origins, especially since sandy's origins are in direct reference to the same canon universe of where they both came from. sandy knew pitch back in the day, he reels off all his titles, and he also rode emily jane's shooting star to face off with her in front of her father. it's kind of difficult to separate the two and easier to combine, in my experience. otherwise you might have to improvise/bullshit on what dreamsand/nightmare sand is, and that would just get messy. as a castmate myself, i'd rather canon rules were as closely followed as possible.

this is just my take on it though, my two cents. good luck in whatever you choose to do!

actually we don't know when the books happened. i also thought they were supposed to be old as fuck, but then someone mentioned a famous person (i can't remember who right now - davinci i think?) that made me doubt it.

and sandy and pitch also know each other from the beginning of times in the ruftoon comics. but that aside, i'm confused by your

otherwise you might have to improvise/bullshit on what dreamsand/nightmare sand is

why? dreamsand was sandy's power and pitch corrupted to make blacksand. what's messy about that? (not wanting to argue, just curious and needing clarification! maybe i missed something)

it's no problem, anon! i got out my book to make sure i wasn't talking out of my ass, here's what i have.

long story short, pitch catches up to sandy who after several years has been steering emily jane's star/meteor around the cosmos and sends them plummeting into earth. the dreamsand itself is the dissolved star that sandy slept on for a ridiculously long time and every grain of it contains one of the good dreams he had during his slumber. pitch can corrupt the sand because the star was inhabited by his daughter and her indomitable spirit (through typhan's teachings) transferred into it (like an echo of how driven pitch is, emily jane's wilfulness was always encouraged by kozmotis) so it ties back and forth: pitch as the nightmare king states he never forgot his daughter, that the star's effect on him is profoundly disturbing and he's been chasing it as a direct result of its pull. i don't have a problem with people who want to play movie and book canon as separate things and can roll with that, but it makes no sense to me how they justify the huge deal of what happened to the sand in the movie, unless they handwave it as ~random spirit magic, which feels enormously lazy. like ??? why wouldn't you just use the canon explanation already there?

it's not as if combining the origins and the movie hurts anyone if everybody in a cast has read the books, and bunny's reference in the movie of 'I told you never to speak about that' when north teases him in front of jack, 'you should have seen bunny!' is meant to play on how stiff-lipped the pooka once was. tooth's fairies can feel her emotions because she changed into them to escape her attackers and the ability never left her. the elves are north's reformed bandits from santoff claussen. all these little things! pitch has them too, and his corruption of the sand is a big factor that isn't easily ignored if you want to keep continuity with castmates, especially sandy where the creation of the movie!nightmares is concerned.

that's what i've got, i hope it helps explains my standpoint a little better. o7

how they justify the huge deal of what happened to the sand in the movie
something that they thought it was good became a weapon, that's definitely something to be make a deal of. the how is explained too: take a dream, add fear, final result: nightmare. kids stop being afraid, blacksand goes back to being dream sand, sandy returns. i really don't see the problem here. they explained it pretty well instead of handwaving it with "a wizard did it".

it's not as if combining the origins and the movie hurts anyone
oh, i didn't want to imply that! i don't do it, but to each their own. that's why i clarified i didn't want to argue the issue, just wanted to have a discussion about their powers.

i know there are things unexplained in the movie that make reference to the books - they were made at the same time, so they probably brainstormed together and combine information. and i do fill in some gaps with book information (like the elves thing or the origins of tooth and bunny). but i don't think it's enough to make them the same continuity. let's forget about the comics for a second, since people are dubious on those. let's go to the actual source. in the movie, when pitch talks about the dark ages, he's shown as being the boogeyman we know of, going around and doing his job kinda like sandy. i don't think that matches the books, where we have pitch planning only certain attacks against the protags. we don't see pitch in the books being "the boogeman" imo. and then there's the problem of catherine, nightlight and ombric. they were named guardians too, and in the movie they don't even exist. even if you said they were somewhere else, they aren't on north's floor around the crystal thingy where the guardians are drawn - it's a four points design.

...oops, tldr, sorry. didn't mean to go there, just wanted to answer to your pointing out things in the movie and got out of hand. i say each person can play whatever the hell they want, they just need to listen and talk to potential castmates without whining. i told op that fandom is 50-50 and they just need to be ready to encounter that, that's all.

ayrt

(Anonymous) - 2014-02-23 04:16 (UTC) - Expand

ayrt

(Anonymous) - 2014-02-23 04:32 (UTC) - Expand

ayrt

(Anonymous) - 2014-02-23 04:45 (UTC) - Expand

ayrt

(Anonymous) - 2014-02-23 04:58 (UTC) - Expand

Just dropping in to say thanks for sharing your side of things? Can I ask how you feel about castmates who play movie-only, but don't expect you to do the same? Is it a serious irritation for you, or do you not care so much as long as you're free to do your own thing?

not an irritation at all! people can play whatever they prefer and i certainly don't want to police their fun. if there was a strict divide between movie and book canon for them, which there isn't for me, i'd simply request to agree upon the fact we both played canon aus. both are correct and flawed to a certain degree, no one will ever be 100% right.

i can't speak for anyone else but i've found the rotg/goc fandom is very mature and friendly, probably because we're all playing such silly iconic characters ;) i genuinely can't imagine anyone would have a huge problem, either way.

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2014-02-23 18:15 (UTC) - Expand

For anyone who's interested, I found a few quotes on rufftoon's DA page about her take on the issue:

:Movie verse and book verse Pitch are rather different. I don't know if the movie verse one ever had a daughter..."

"Though I separate book verse and movie verse characters, North is a mix: he has a past as an adventurer, soldier and thief. Some of that comes out at the worst of times."

I wouldn't call it at all definitive because she's not the author of the books nor a director/writer of the movie, and I think it's still valid for people to combine them if they want to, but here's some evidence that going the other way is valid too.

yeah, there are lots of stuff on rufftoon's blog and da page. it was from her that i learned books and movie were made at the same time (it wasn't like httyd or shrek where they found a book and said hey let's adapt this). when she published one of the pitch comics she even mentions something in the lines of "i know he's different from the books but this pitch is the one that counts for me because we didn't fully have the books back then and this is what we worked for" (not exact quote, talking from memory here)

but as you said, she isn't a higher up, and hey, she alls her comics "fancomics" herself. so yeah, the status of this so far is "unknown" and both sides are right in doing their thing.

be careful around tumblr, though, since they took joyce's inspiration quote from the dvd and interpreted whatever they wanted from it (aka canon+movie=same universe being canon)

btw, rufttoon uploaded new pages for her north comic today! :D

She is so ridiculously talented; I've been following her since her ATLA days and she's only gotten better. Reading her comics is actually what got me interested in the canon in the first place; I'd played with RPers from it and had a lot of fun, but hadn't had much drive to actually watch the movie or read the books until I looked more into her stuff.

she was one of the storyboard artists for the movie iirc? but yeah either way she really is great, i love her works and it was a lovely surprise to see that new north comic

somewhat leaning more towards the topic of the thread, i personally take rufftoon's comics for movie canon simply because they don't immediately contradict any of the movie's factors, and that's what i play from. but yeah, either way it really is a vague line between the two verses, and i don't mind other people that don't take the comics into account. i still think they really help flesh some factors of the characters regardless, though. holds the one she did for jack close to my bosom tbh

as someone who prefers the book canons, I'd like to say that I definitely agree.

Rufftoon worked very hard with the movie crew, and whether the movie and book are the same universe or not, her stuff DOESN'T contradict the movie.

I personally wouldn't have any conflict playing against someone who took movie canon from Rufftoon's work, as it just kinda... makes more sense.

I haven't met anyone who's elitist/separatist about it yet, for what it's worth. I mean, I loved the movie-- I just prefer the book because it brought me in deeper and gives me more material. That, and I adore Katherine. But I don't have any beef with players who stick to the movie as separate.

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Unfunny wanky stereotypes

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