rpanons | Nobody flicks me in the butt without my consent

Nobody flicks me in the butt without my consent

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Seriously. I'm not signing it because I really don't like half the thoughts being put forward, even if I hated some of the change. I see squatters and people who have dropped because the AC was too much pre change signing it.

I don't think we need a reduced AC. That feels like pandering to the ones that have too much on their plates. I also don't think private journal posts should count. I think private group logs and open logs should both count the same.(Only counts as a full piece of activity for OP or counts for everyone who hasn't just done a single comment and ditched. Not one counts one way, another a different.)

I also want a ballpark minimum standard on comment threads. Give me a comment count to shoot for. I hate guessing and hoping I met the mods' whims, and I'm pretty sure I've seen in the past multiple people with the same amount of comments get different results.

I also want a ballpark minimum standard on comment threads. Give me a comment count to shoot for. I hate guessing and hoping I met the mods' whims, and I'm pretty sure I've seen in the past multiple people with the same amount of comments get different results.

that's the main reason i signed the petition tbh. i don't care about most of the changes, but i'd love to get a clearer idea of how much is enough for comment threads.

me too anon.

I agree with most of this (I'm of the opinion that private group logs should count for everyone though, but if we got a comment count I would like to see OP only counts and you just use the threads in there). I don't want a reduced AC, I just want a damned minimum comment count. It can only *help* people to have a number, as I'm with you I think I have too seen people get shafted with the same number of comments (and I've been told one number would always get you a pass and seen people with that number get told it wasn't enough).

If this gets us *that* I'm okay with it, and that's really all I hope it gets us. Or at least opens up discussion about the topic to start with, which it has done at least here.

I'm just a helper these days and have no bearing on AC, but I wanted to note where the current system sits and where it's from.

I'm quite sure we're in the same system we've always been in: if you post to check, then you obviously care enough to stay, so it's likely enough. In my time doing check, which was for a number of years, I felt that rule-of-thumb was easiest to run with. After all, if I quantified it by number, then I'd be stuck with the inevitable quantity vs quality argument. That is why we didn't pick a number years ago: because the community discussed it on HTG and a lot of folks were concerned about x meaty tags not being "enough" but x+1 toss-off tags being "enough."

Theoretically, someone might only be asked for more threads or whatever if they truly have the bare minimum (a few tags, consisting of a toss-off line or two, barely past introductions) and/or they dropped all the threads, AND they have no hiatuses or reasons for absence.

And on top of that, the average character in Paradisa does about 30-40 comments per month to the main comm and logs comm combined. If you try to set a number, where do you put it? 30 comments total? 25? Lots of people do 25 comments in a couple hours, let alone the month. In that sense, I'd rather use a "pay what you can" model instead of a solid "required fee"; squatters can always be dealt with on a case-by-case basis with the mods.

- Jenn

Edited 2013-05-05 21:43 (UTC)

'you cared enough to post' = 'you care enough to stay' is not what's happening. I've seen people link three or four threads and be told that no, that's not enough to pass AC.

I skimmed through the past few months of AC; I've seen a few instances where people were asked for more or offered three posts for the next month. Are these the occasions you mean? (The three posts trend, on the other hand, that's another matter entirely.)

But we'll all be sure to get a conversation going on this when the petition goes in, for sure. I just wanted to clarify the reason why we don't have a "minimum number" for now :) Prepare the argument against and all that jazz.

quality is purely subjective measure of activity and has no place in the ac. by providing a fixed comment quantity requirement, activity checks ensure all players are judged fairly and objectively, which is why many games have that standard in place.

but you make it sound as though neither quality nor quantity actually matter in paradisa if it's a "pay what you can" method and "if you post to check, then you obviously care enough to stay, so it's likely enough". that implies that the activity check is nothing but a formality. what is the cut-off line for the "bare minimum"? what defines squatting, if caring enough to comment to check is proof of activity? arbitrary nonsense like that is why paradisa needs to change.

Right –– and those are the very questions I think this petition needs to address if it wants to be taken seriously.

The system I used when I ran it and the current mods have inherited wasn't (and isn't) perfect, and those are all great questions. But it also isn't arbitrary -- it's just a system that was put in place years ago when the demands of the game were different, and major concerns from then were avoiding any numerical minimums, for mods to not police what is or isn't squatting and let players go to them with concerns on a case-by-case basis, and so on. Years ago, players had answers to those questions (and likely many players still do), while others now disagree, have changed their mind, or have come into the game with new ideas. All are equally valid, naturally, but hashing out any potential chances to the system is going to mean people need to answer the questions you've posed.

What people are taking issue with thus far seems to be that the petition is mostly just about dropping the requirement down to one post or allowing private posts again or other [imho] minor reversions and changes... but if you're making a proposal, there needs to be more meat.

If the AC requirement gets dropped to one post or private posts are allowed again, how should squatters be defined and handled?
If clearer thread counts are needed, how many comments should be required? Why that number?
Should quality be taken into account, considering that while subjective, it can be more indicative of a character's time spent/growth over the month than some character that just tags around misc "hellos" and one-liners?
Why do we bother doing AC, if we could just ask people if they still want to stay?
Why should two posts matter if someone could post and then never respond to any of the tags?
Etc., etc., etc.

So my bottom line is this: if you want change to be made so that the AC system better reflects the current playerbase, I highly recommend the petition includes suggestions as to WHY certain changes would work or meet the present-day needs of the game. A whole lot of signatures saying "yeah, we want change" is a good start, but when you simply ask for change and don't come up with a stronger proposal, you might not get the change you want.

Edited 2013-05-06 05:11 (UTC)

to be fair, i think a lot of people are waiting for the next "how's the game" post before going into real in-depth discussion. for now the petition just seems like a, "hey, we'd like to talk about this again! and we're not the only ones!" measure

Very true! I just want this thing to be prepared, because people always talk about what they'll say on HTG... and not everyone gets around to it. Best to lay down the terms while everyone's raring to go, and all :)

Well, no offense meant, but I know a number of people have said last game's HTG conversation regarding this got made too uncomfortable to continue by that idiot that was sniping at a player in the thread. That probably didn't help things with the discussion.

iirc this was first started to get people talking about AC and changes that could be made to the system and probably shouldn't have been labelled a petition. it's more like a "Hey this topic should be brought up again for discussion as it didn't happen last time" sort of thing, though this time there's suggestions there to get us started.

whether it's brought up solely at HTG or is brought up before that by the mods is up to them, granted i would like it to be before that so discussion of how it's working could be at HTG sooner than later, but that's me.

but you do bring up good points to think on (some i hadn't considered as it's something i just never do with AC systems by now like squatters as that will always happen), so thank you for that!

You realize that players did this on the last HMG and the mods just never replied, right?

I'm one of the people that dropped and this is what I'm asking for is just flexible options and at least a ballpark of comments that can equal a post. It really is not hard to implement. The rest of how it is I'm fine with. Just...stop making it these two exact posts you want because with some characters it's like pulling goddamn teeth.

you don't have to make two posts. this has been a thing for a very long time now. you can provide only threads if you want. this is stated in the activity check rules and has been for the entire time i've been in the game.

solid comment count, sure, we could use that. but why is everyone acting like there are no other options? does no one know how to read?

because with how wishy washy they are on how many comments equal a damn post you may as well NOT have any other options.

The other anon is right. The options are both too strict and not defined well enough. Some people make AC on less threads/comments than others do and it frustrated enough of us to leave and has frustrated enough of the userbase left to start a dialogue about this since the mods have been unresponsive about this for ages. This has been going on since well before I left and I've not been around in a while. No matter what we do, nothing happens, so actually confronting them has been a long time coming.

I don't get why you're so asspained we want a solution and some clarity. The system may work for you, but it's not working for far more. There's some arbitrary bullshit going on that needs to be sorted out.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

Nobody flicks me in the butt without my consent

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