rpanons | incorporate a gnat into the smut thread

incorporate a gnat into the smut thread

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are you talking about kate? i'm pissed off about that too, wasn't she already allowed to find the door in the first place for some reason? and now her and alphys have been hoarding the rights to the plot every since?

kate apparently found some super secret door location info and then didn't tell the rest of the game, and now she seems to be the only one sorrow wants to help with the fragments

The player took initiative. You can too.

plenty of players are trying but they're getting shut out by the npc in charge of it

i'm counting three or four characters on the npc post asking how they can help and being told they can't. kate's the only one being given the go ahead. plus, from what i understand alphys has been studying the fragments too, but i haven't seen any posts about it or any updates.

There will be a poking at the fragments/experiment type mingle from the lab, it seems like they just needed a mod response about what they'd learn and to figure out how many people handed over their fragments. That info is in the ooc collection post now. Alphys' player is always very open to plotting and involving others somehow, but I agree that Kate has been intentionally hiding information ic and the player doesn't seem open ooc to people getting their characters involved. It's very frustrating.

ia with most of this, in the past alphys's player hasn't exactly kept a stranglehold on the plot but imho that player and kate's player should've done a better job of keeping up with this plot. the case with alphys's player seems to be that they let it fall to the wayside for whatever reason. but with something this important there should have been stronger organisation efforts from the start. i understand waiting on a mod response on what the research revealed but i don't understand why no one was keeping track of all the moving pieces or offering to let characters in on the research before that point. in the end it wasn't even the alphys or kate players that started to get things organised.

glancing over the posts it just looks like balls dropped or being slow to get going, nothing malicious or egregious. but the research is all kind of moot since the only one who is going to have any effect is an NPC, so in the end there's not really much to complain about.

though I guess the actual plot resolution going to the NPCs again without players getting a hand in it is a bit frustrating.

that's what i'm saying, i don't think it was intentional but if any characters are going to be responsible for major plot things like this door shard stuff, its still a problem that the ball was dropped in the first place. it's not a HUGE issue but it's still irritating when combined with the other issues with this plot, though i am glad that there's more organisation in place now even if it's late.

the bigger issue is that kate IS getting to participate in the plot resolution, meanwhile all the other characters are being told by sorrow that they can't participate. that's the step over the line imho.

Not that I'm necessary disagreeing with you, but maybe I'm missing where several other characters are offering to help? I see two other than Kate on Sorrow's post, but only one has any reason to be considered helpful based on knowledge and experience, and they haven't gotten a hard no yet (the thread's still ongoing.)

i see three that have offered to help flat out and a few others that have expressed interest in the experiments. it's fair to say that all of the threads are technically ongoing and sorrow could change his mind and let the others in too. i hope thats what happens, but it's a little strange that he let kate in without her needing to fight very hard.

as far as the characters having knowledge/experience... i see why from an ic standpoint that's important, but from an ooc standpoint it still sucks that players are getting shut out of the plot. if experimenting with the fragments isn't the place to include them, fine, but then there should be other opportunities available.

tldr my issue boils down to the plot being too difficult to break into. if the mods are going to give plot to kate, they should be willing to find a way to open it up to more direct player participation. in the past they've been pretty good about this so i don't know what's going on here.

Kate's player always does that. It's fine if hiding information is IC for Kate, but if you've got plot details that the entire rest of the game should have a right to know, it's shitty not to offer methods OOC for other players to weasel it out of your character or find out in some other fashion. Instead we get "lol Kate knows but she's not going to tell anyone! She's the worst! Teehee!"

can some people talk to the kate player and ask her how to get the info out of her character so that others can use it? if the player refuses to work with anyone, then you take it to the mods.

didn't she make a post about finding the door a few months ago? right around the time that the null posted about the door pieces

the new info about the pieces is open to anyone who's been working on studying them, as far as I understand

I think it just came up in select threads she bothered to tag on other people's posts, but I don't think she's ever made a post about it, herself. Unless you're digging for the info on other posts, you could easily miss it.

https://hadriel.dreamwidth.org/211065.html

this is what I was remembering, but it does look like it's more reaffirming that the null's info was right than giving any new information.

I was thinking of that, too, until I reread it and realized that it's literally the same thing everyone just learned from Name. I remember finding that post pointless because I don't trust Nico to organise her way out of a paper bag, let alone herding other players around a complex plot.

i'll preface this by saying that the alphys player put up a lab mingle specifically for studying the shards today, so the problem is as retroactively fixed as it can be.

the thing about the shard studying before this, though, was that no one publicly announced that the shard studying was happening at the lab. i would've liked to get in on that sooner but i didn't realize it was happening, and once i did, i thought it was a specific arrangement between alphys, kate, and a handful of other characters. it was never marketed as a public "anyone can get involved" kind of thing.

i'm not ready to get out the torches and pitchforks or anything, but in the future, it'd be cool if everyone in the game could be better about avoiding this sort of thing. i really do think it was an oversight on the players' part, and i really appreciate that the players are now opening the door for anyone who wants to get involved after some other players asked for it. but i wish it had been more open in the first place.

this is exactly the issue i had, anon, and i had a similar issue with the null parts. they really should have just done an open and shut post, like "hey, i've got this information, who wants to help me?" i'm not entirely sure how open alphys has been in those lab mingles, but i doubt most new players have even known the research stuff was happening at all.

i think the irritation now stems from a combination of the fact that alphys and kate historically haven't been great about getting other people on board, whether that's oversight on the player's part or not, plus the fact that sorrow doesn't seem to be gung ho about anyone other than kate helping him. either of those in isolation would have just been a little frustrating, but taken together it feels like sections of the plot are only for "chosen" players.

I think a lot of the lack of sharing comes from an IC paranoia and desire to avoid letting the gods know too much about their possible activities? Or even not letting those that oppose the gods in on it, depending on the character's alliance? That's not a good thing and I think we need to find a way around that, even if it means fudging what would be 100% IC.

With Sorrow, he's always shown preferential treatment depending on a character's usefulness and willingness. A lot of characters can be downright hateful towards the gods and I think that's had its IC consequences.

I agree with all of this. We do need to be working on ways to keep plots open and inclusive as much as possible, although there is a limit in that you can't expect a character to blindly ignore knowledge that someone might be untrustworthy and then share sensitive information anyway. A better solution would be for the initial information to be shared amongst the public in one way or another, rather than through a character that may or may not ICly distribute it.

But the part about Sorrow is also a good point, in that characters who are getting plot info are those that have ICly put effort into establishing trustworthy relationships with the gods. That sort of thing should be rewarded, although it goes against the idea of giving the same information to everyone.

Maybe what would actually be best would be for there to plot roles for both sides of things, rather than just one. Right now almost all the information is restricted to characters who have earned the favor of the gods, which makes sense as far as the gods sharing information goes. But perhaps there should also be a plot role for characters who are undecided, or those who are antigod; we had this when the Null were actively recruiting people to their side, and it gave a bunch of plot and conflict opportunity to characters no matter their plot alignment. Personally I think that's the element we're missing most of all, rather than there being anything hugely wrong with the plot that is there.

I agree with most of what you and the commenter below are saying, except that it would be sacrificing characterization to let other people in on a plot. With the NPCs, I'm fine with them shutting down PC involvement based on what's now literal years of antagonism. But player based plot stuff that would affect the game at large? There is always a way to involve others, even if it's only in a shutting-them-out sense.

If you're playing a super paranoid character who wouldn't reveal information, you can still offer ways for others to find out somehow. Maybe there really is no way to be IC and still let them help, if they know that the character would be a problem, but the game is also very friendly to negative CR as well. Most of the "my character would fuck everything up" players are fine with being shut out ICly, and will curb behavior like "but now that they know they're going to announce it to everyone and make issues." There are ways to involve people where everyone remains perfectly IC, it just requires more OOC coordination. I think that's where the stuff with Kate fails, where the Name repair plot was pretty successful OOCly. Because those players were comfortable saying "you can know, but they would either be keeping a close eye on you or won't allow you to help" towards characters that would have killed Name. I don't think anyone felt as shut out of that one because it was IC and there were opportunities to plot, and also it was done on the comms and even people who weren't at all involved could see what was going on. I have absolutely no idea how Kate found out about the Door, or what she did about it besides apparently tell specific characters and then confirm on the network that it was a thing. No effort was made to let anyone else find out or engage before it became a main game plot. To me IC knowledge distribution can be limited, but major stuff like that should be common OOC knowledge.

It's a collaborative hobby, so there's gotta be some give and take for everyone to engage but that doesn't necessarily mean slipping on characterization and letting plans go off the rails for the sake of it.

I agree with this. The Name plot had characters that were more open involved in it, like Lance, but even then iirc the way the Name plot worked was that people signed up OOC and then the players came up with reasons for the characters in charge of the plot to get those characters involved.

With Kate, everything was completely under wraps. I think the first time I even heard about it was when the player mentioned it in the discord server, and that was only to joke about how Kate wouldn't be telling anyone. I still don't know how that entire thing went down or how Kate had the opportunity to learn something like that. I also have no idea how anyone else would be able to get insider knowledge about the plot in that way. Did the mods just approach her OOC? Did she approach them?

Yeah, I've been around awhile and have seen several people do personal plots for their characters that were directly tied to the main plot (things where they needed to request approval and all that), but that don't affect the game at large. And even some of those were used to build new cr even though they were character-specific. I feel like that's the kind of thing Kate's player wanted, something just for her, except the fact that it's something so relevant to the game at large makes the secrecy a problem. And it wasn't transparent enough.

Since it became the main game plot eventually anyway there's really nothing to do about it, and I am least am much less fussed now. It's just a big misstep that I feel like players should be aware of when making requests of that nature.

it's the main game plot, but it's still hard for people to get involved.

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incorporate a gnat into the smut thread

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ayrt

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