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Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

I read that wrong. Who's Kevin/Kay?

Kevin, aka, Kay, aka, Kayvin.

an rper who conveniently decided to come out as trans after they creeped (as a male) on female players with female characters and was incredibly pushy with f/f smut. when told they made people uncomfortable, he'd toe the ground, say aww shucks, they didn't know, and they'd never do it again, then do it again because 'they forgot'. they even commented that no one would be so mad at them if they were a girl doing it, then a few week later "hi. so... i'm trans. and a lesbian. hee hee".

basically a creepy fucking creeper that no one actually believes is trans and is using it as a get out of being a pervert harasser free card. google kevin or kay or kayvin or dragon8writer and wg if you want more deets.

agreed on almost all fronts, except don't say no one believes she's trans. there's quite a few people in the camp that if someone says they're trans, other people don't get to decide they're not. kay might be a creeper but that's a hell of a slippery slope

I have my own reservations about Kay, and I wouldn't let "she's trans now" work as an excuse to let anyone off the hook because pushing people for smut is creepy and unacceptable regardless of gender. But I also dislike the thought of srtting the unfortunate precedent of deadnaming/doubting trans folk in rp or assuming it's just to dodge drama.

you're making an argument where there is none. no one deadnames or doubts actual trans people. there are disgusting individuals in this hobby on this site that we acknowledge as trans. there are annoying fucking wankers and creepers that we acknowledge as trans. kayvin is not one of them. you don't go 'i won't get in trouble for this same behavior if i'm a girl' and then in a week go 'btw, i'm trans and a lesbian hee hee', like that excuses your creeptastic fetishization and smut pushing and harassing.

one thing is not like the other. no one's doubting trans people. we're calling kayvin a fucking liar, because he is. he's not trans. he's a lying douche trying to find a way out of being a 'creepy icky boy'. hell, there are people on this site that go back and forth between whether they want female/male pronouns, and even when we're pissed at them, we do it. we adhere to that. this is nowhere in the same ballpark. don't lump his lie in with actual trans people. it demeans them and detracts from the fact that he's lying through his teeth.

there is no precedent. kevin is in a realm by himself. no trans person i have ever met has ever suddenly decided that they're a different gender after stalking and harassing said gender and getting mad because people caught on to their creeping, and whining that had they been said gender, nobody would have said anything.

that is way too specific a situation for anyone just just "accidentally misgender" someone who might actually be trans.

unless, of course, you think all trans people are so obvious about the reason why they're changing their gender. (which, by the way, they're not, and you can go fuck yourself if you do think that.)

Honestly, I think that the important thing to focus on is that regardless of this individual's gender their behavior is unacceptable. I'd really like to stop seeing arguments about whether they're "really trans" clogging up flatview for pages every time they come up. Whether or not they're lying, who cares! They're still doing unacceptable shit! If you think they're lying about being trans so that they can get away with creepy fetishistic smut-pushing, the solution is not to let them get away with creepy, fetishistic smut pushing, not to pull out the BY THE WAY IT'S A TRAP argument.

Because frankly, even if this person is lying, that argument hurts real trans women. Fighting fervently for your right to ignore someone's stated gender and pronoun preference because you think they're lying, regardless of why you think they're lying, creates an exceptionally hostile atmosphere for trans people in general.

Call her Kay and say that she does fucked-up and unacceptable shit. You can do both at the same time. It reduces the collateral damage and puts people's attention back on the actual problem.

Because frankly, even if this person is lying, that argument hurts real trans women.

no, it doesn't. you know what hurts trans women and trans issues? believing lying sacks of shit who play the 'i'm trans' card just to get out of being a creep. this isn't some jenga tower tottery precariously and one more 'you lying sack of shit' is going to topple it over. he doesn't get to pretend he's a girl and have people believe him 'just in case'. you know what that does? that lets him win. and this isn't a 'trans' issue. this is a lying sack of shit issue. this is the first case of 'i'm trans' that i've ever called bullshit on. this is the only case of trans i've ever called bullshit on.

i'm not acknowledging a made up persona that can be the scapegoat for all of his bad behavior. you can be upset that this argument happens all you want. i'm upset that anyone keeps trying to make this about trans issues and not 'some lying sack of shit is lying through their teeth'. he's not trans. he does not consider himself to be a female just born into the wrong body. believing it, humoring that lie is what hurts trans issues. it's what makes people think that 'it's just a phase' or 'it's a lie people say to get closer to women/it's so perverts can creep on them in the bathroom'. that? that's what people think of when they freak out about trans people in their safe places. kevin.

You guys both have good arguments. Could we just call this person 'them/they' and continue to trash them whenever they show signs they're doing the same thing?

"you know what hurts trans women and trans issues? believing lying sacks of shit who play the 'i'm trans' card just to get out of being a creep."

okay, but how? how does it hurt? especially when no one is giving them a pass on being a creep? like, your entire argument is built on the crux that anyone that believes they're a woman will suddenly be okay with their behavior. and no one who is opposed to their behavior has given them that pass, regardless of their stance on their gender.

so, once again, how?

because the argument then becomes this: sjw barging into a conversation to say leave the poor trans alone when no trans are being harmed in the making of this wank. kevin is not trans. kevin is not 1/16 cherokee princess. kevin is not anything other than a guy grasping at straws to get out of trouble. problem is, you assholes are falling for it. the pass is that you're believing a lie. you're turning threads into hundreds of comment long arguments over 'let's just pretend she's a she' when it's not true. you know what that is? that's enabling bad behavior. 'oh, he thinks he's a dog, so it's okay if he shits in your living room and fucks your stuffed toys. well, we both know he's not, but let's just let him live that lie'.

no. you can if you want and i'll sit here calling you an idiot for it.

believing they're trans and forgiving them for all their shitty behavior are two entirely different concepts. you seem to be the only one unable to grasp this and extending these threads infinitely long as a result.

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(Anonymous) - 2016-09-09 17:52 (UTC) - Expand

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(Anonymous) - 2016-09-10 05:45 (UTC) - Expand

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(Anonymous) - 2016-09-10 14:43 (UTC) - Expand

if you want an actual example of what you think isn't happening, i have a trans woman friend who gets intensely uncomfortable whenever people call kay "he" and insist on doing so despite any corrections. so that IS happening, wave this off as hyperbole if you want to, but you're still choosing to disrespect someone's pronoun choice based on their behavior.

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(Anonymous) - 2016-09-10 16:55 (UTC) - Expand

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(Anonymous) - 2016-09-10 17:27 (UTC) - Expand

like I'm skeptical Kay is trans due to how convenient the timing is, but I'll call her a her just in the event she is unless there's solid proof that she's faking it for sympathy points/get out of drama-free card.

"i'll let kevin keep his scam in the very, very, very unlikely case that it's not and i look bad."

boo. now you look worse by letting him off just to potentially save face.

what you're missing every time this comes up is that no one is letting them off

no one wants them to get off anywhere near them

i'm not the other anon and i can't speak for them, but a lot of threads about him will get derailed and the real points forgotten and ignored when people don't say "she" about anyone that is (or claims to be) trans. some people will scream how it's just because they're transphobic and others will use it as a chance to deflect. in my opinion when it's "covering my ass" it's more to authenticate and avoid derailing the wank.

that being said i've known kevin for like 5+ years on/off back when he was in another game and wouldn't lay off trying to enable me and get me to write f/f with him. fucking creep of the highest magnitude that uses the "oh i didn't know/didn't get it" excuse constantly. you can go as far back as capeandcowl and find hmd comments where he's being told EXACTLY what he does that makes people uncomfortable, in a friendly, informative, and neutral tone only for him to keep doing it. he thinks so long as he goes "no one told me" he can get away with it and i can't comment on the trans thing. maybe he is really, but there's no doubt that the fetishization of women and lesbians is a huge part of it.

hey, calling Kay a her doesn't mean I'm gonna let her within 30 and a half miles of my female characters, what she did in the past and still does is creepy, gross, and grounds for prebans, but I don't see how being a dick about gender identity is gonna help.

but you are giving legitimacy to his claim by acquiescing to his desire to be treated like "just one of the girls".

that's the thing. it has actually nothing to do with gender identity. this is not an actual trans person, but a fraud who literally said "this wouldn't happen if i were a girl!" one week and then "teehee i'm a girl now, and a lesbian!" the next.

don't try to make this a social justice issue. that demeans actual social justice issues.

not for nothing anon, but just because you think of someone as a girl doesn't mean you think of them as "just one of the girls".

i love this crap. it's never, ever, ever okay to doubt someone's trans status and deny that they're the gender they prefer... unless it's someone you hate, then go for it.

yeah, I don't get how hard it is for that anon to get "Okay I believe Kay is a transwoman unless proven otherwise" = "I will forgive everything they did as Kevin and give a clean slate"

It's not the same thing, not going to give Kay a pass because they change identity doesn't mean their personality does a 180. It's just not being a fucking gatekeeper of "I will only acknowledge your identity if you pass specific standards or else you're not a true X"

it's not about passing specific standards, though. it's about this person using transness as a shield and as an extension of their fetishistic bullshit. it's not that kevin has failed to pass a standard, it's that they have passed a negative one. they have done ACTIVE things to make them clearly not trans. that's a different thing from not meeting some standard.

it's not a matter of hating kevin-- there are plenty of trans creepers in this hobby, and nobody misgenders them out of pure unadulterated hatred. it's just a fact that he actually, openly stated that he'd lie about this.

like, this shit is so obvious it's like getting smacked in the face with a fish. if i said to people, "man, if i were black, people would stop yelling at me about being an unapologetic racist and huge asshole because black people get away with this all the time," and then in the next day said, "oh surprise guys, i found out i'm actually black after all. black solidatiry, amirite?" the number of people who actually believe me should be 0, or pretty dang close to it.

you have zero idea how crazy you sound right now, do you?

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