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Honestly, I think that the important thing to focus on is that regardless of this individual's gender their behavior is unacceptable. I'd really like to stop seeing arguments about whether they're "really trans" clogging up flatview for pages every time they come up. Whether or not they're lying, who cares! They're still doing unacceptable shit! If you think they're lying about being trans so that they can get away with creepy fetishistic smut-pushing, the solution is not to let them get away with creepy, fetishistic smut pushing, not to pull out the BY THE WAY IT'S A TRAP argument.

Because frankly, even if this person is lying, that argument hurts real trans women. Fighting fervently for your right to ignore someone's stated gender and pronoun preference because you think they're lying, regardless of why you think they're lying, creates an exceptionally hostile atmosphere for trans people in general.

Call her Kay and say that she does fucked-up and unacceptable shit. You can do both at the same time. It reduces the collateral damage and puts people's attention back on the actual problem.

Because frankly, even if this person is lying, that argument hurts real trans women.

no, it doesn't. you know what hurts trans women and trans issues? believing lying sacks of shit who play the 'i'm trans' card just to get out of being a creep. this isn't some jenga tower tottery precariously and one more 'you lying sack of shit' is going to topple it over. he doesn't get to pretend he's a girl and have people believe him 'just in case'. you know what that does? that lets him win. and this isn't a 'trans' issue. this is a lying sack of shit issue. this is the first case of 'i'm trans' that i've ever called bullshit on. this is the only case of trans i've ever called bullshit on.

i'm not acknowledging a made up persona that can be the scapegoat for all of his bad behavior. you can be upset that this argument happens all you want. i'm upset that anyone keeps trying to make this about trans issues and not 'some lying sack of shit is lying through their teeth'. he's not trans. he does not consider himself to be a female just born into the wrong body. believing it, humoring that lie is what hurts trans issues. it's what makes people think that 'it's just a phase' or 'it's a lie people say to get closer to women/it's so perverts can creep on them in the bathroom'. that? that's what people think of when they freak out about trans people in their safe places. kevin.

You guys both have good arguments. Could we just call this person 'them/they' and continue to trash them whenever they show signs they're doing the same thing?

"you know what hurts trans women and trans issues? believing lying sacks of shit who play the 'i'm trans' card just to get out of being a creep."

okay, but how? how does it hurt? especially when no one is giving them a pass on being a creep? like, your entire argument is built on the crux that anyone that believes they're a woman will suddenly be okay with their behavior. and no one who is opposed to their behavior has given them that pass, regardless of their stance on their gender.

so, once again, how?

because the argument then becomes this: sjw barging into a conversation to say leave the poor trans alone when no trans are being harmed in the making of this wank. kevin is not trans. kevin is not 1/16 cherokee princess. kevin is not anything other than a guy grasping at straws to get out of trouble. problem is, you assholes are falling for it. the pass is that you're believing a lie. you're turning threads into hundreds of comment long arguments over 'let's just pretend she's a she' when it's not true. you know what that is? that's enabling bad behavior. 'oh, he thinks he's a dog, so it's okay if he shits in your living room and fucks your stuffed toys. well, we both know he's not, but let's just let him live that lie'.

no. you can if you want and i'll sit here calling you an idiot for it.

believing they're trans and forgiving them for all their shitty behavior are two entirely different concepts. you seem to be the only one unable to grasp this and extending these threads infinitely long as a result.

believing he's trans is essentially saying 'well, you're a fucking liar, but i guess we'll believe just this one because it's a sensitive subject and we don't want to make other people's gender identities come into scrutiny because we know you're a fucking douche bag lying sack of shit.' the fact that you somehow think it's less a lie because it's a gender issue and not a creeper one is the problem here.

except in this case, they're linked because his shitty behaviore is pretending to be trans in order to creep on women while pretending to be "one of the girls".

the only way your logic would work is if we, as a community, have never held a woman accountable for the kind of behavior.

but we have. multiple times. we still do. no one is being "fooled" if we accept their trans status at face value if we're still judging them, harshly, for their creeper behavior, assuming as you say the goal was to use their status as female to get away with it. it would be utterly pointless.

if you want an actual example of what you think isn't happening, i have a trans woman friend who gets intensely uncomfortable whenever people call kay "he" and insist on doing so despite any corrections. so that IS happening, wave this off as hyperbole if you want to, but you're still choosing to disrespect someone's pronoun choice based on their behavior.

then your trans woman friend needs to actually fill herself in on what's happening here and realize that no one's disrespecting a trans woman/man, they're calling a liar a liar.

i'm choosing not to believe someone who's saying 'tee hee, i'm a girl' as a literal escape from consequences. kayvin is not trans. the fact that people keep coming in bawing over trans rights is what muddies up the waters. look at it this way, if a straight guy had been creeping on all your friends for as long as you'd ever known them and wouldn't take no for an answer, but kept saying that he was 'sorry', he 'didn't know that his behavior bothered you' and he 'wouldn't do it again', you'd be annoyed. say that same guy you knew happened to say out loud that none of you would be so annoyed with him if he was gay. cue a few days later with him coming up to you, putting his hand on your tit and going 'oh, ha ha, it's okay. i'm totally gay'.

you see what i'm saying here? he's not gay. kevin is not trans. he's just saying he is to get out of getting in trouble. i wouldn't call you a homophobe if you punched the straight guy in the face for touching your tit. it's not transphobia or disrespecting trans issues to look at kevin and go 'no'. saying you're a thing doesn't make you a thing. being a thing makes you a thing. if you're gay, you're gay. if you're trans, you're trans. be pissed at him for taking trans issues and shitting all over them.

then your trans friend needs to grow a fucking brain and pay attention to what's happening, instead of having the usual tumblrina knee-jerk reaction to something she thinks is happening, but isn't.

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