rpanons | You sound fat

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you have no idea what you're talking about dude

ok i had to come back to this days later because i'm still just boggling at this comment

quick rundown for anyone bothering with this thread

native: an organism that has been part of the ecosystem since before humans started altering the ecosystem on a grand scale

non-native: not native, an organism that is in a place because humans brought it there

naturalized: a not-native species that has settled into the ecosystem and is chugging along without continued human intervention

invasive: a naturalized, non-native species that is disruptive to the native ecosystem, often because it competes with other species for resources or has an unnaturally severe impact on other species

in the context of the us, native and non-native are usually defined in relation to european settlement of the continent, not in relation to native american agriculture, because the former was infinitely more disruptive than the latter (bringing species in from another continent instead of from a couple miles thataway tends to do that)

proof that this is actually how these terms are used: http://www.nrcs.usda.gov/wps/portal/nrcs/detail/ct/technical/ecoscience/invasive/?cid=nrcs142p2_011124 (it's about plants but the same applies to animals)

so, no, cats are not native, and they never will be native.

they will also never not be invasive unless they were very genetically different from how they are. cats today have not changed, genetically, since they first landed on american soil.

the natural prey of the domestic cat is the house mouse. they evolved in africa to be around human settlements and hunt the vermin that likewise evolved to take advantage of human activity. in the us, they do not just hunt mice. they are known to kill all kinds of birds - far more birds than would naturally be killed, and far more birds than those birds' reproduction capabilities are meant to be able to sustain.

on top of that, the ecological niche cats occupy is already filled in the us by foxes and coyotes, and cats' hunting behavior competes with those native small predator species for prey. cats have a very strong hunting drive; they will try to kill whether they're hungry or not. that's not a moral judgment on cats, that's just what they do. we probably bred that into them, because we needed mousers.

as for naturalization: i'm honestly not sure that they're even naturalized, because domestic cats are constantly being pushed into the feral population by escapes and abandonment, on top of feral reproduction. cats in the us aren't like dingoes in australia, i've never heard of a feral colony existing in a completely wild state away from all human activity. i could be wrong about that.

but yeah even if there are naturalized feral colonies that doesn't make your domesticated cat a native species. if it were a native or even naturalized species, it would not be in your house cuddling up to you.

there are a lot of people make fun of the sperglords in the dragon called thread but this has to be the spergiest comment i've read all year

Not sure if you're still watching this thread but just a comment regarding naturalized. I have training in wildlife biology and it's kind of an invented term in this field to defend the existence and management of pheasants in North America which are non native but typically thought of as not disruptive to the ecosystem since they occupy farmland and the idea is that they are not out-competing other native birds or utilizing resources that could otherwise be used by other species. Also they have the benefit of being a historic and extremely popular hunting species. SO, basically this results in managers that can say they manage for "native and naturalized" species and want to control/eradicate "exotic, invasive" species.

Even disregarding the invention of the term "naturalized," it doesn't describe cats anyway. Cats are not naturalized, even in completely feral states without human intervention because they have direct impacts on native species. Killing of native birds, small mammals, and small reptiles is additive rather than compensatory relative to already existing stressors and limitations in the environment.

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