Folds dick neatly

[rpanonmod]

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Comments

da

[(Anonymous)]

re: zero, are you sure there isn't a mistranslation/misunderstanding going on with dialogue supposedly saying he looks like a woman? i just skimmed through the article (disclaimer: my japanese is abysmal) and i'm not seeing any mention of any such thing, nor have i heard of any such dialogue actually coming up in the supports that have been translated. he looks perfectly masculine to me anyway, and his speech pattern is perfectly masculine as well... this is pretty confusing.

i could understanding people taking issue with certain aspects of zero's backstory, and the fact that he likes to make people uncomfortable by saying sexually suggestive things, but i wouldn't have thought that whether or not he "looked feminine" would be any cause for complaint! there are way girlier looking guys in the game than him, even when putting foleo to one side.

the article doesn't seem to focus much on him anyway, as far as i can see. it's much more about soleil (for obvious amd understandable reasons) and to a lesser extent shara (i see they touched on the fact that she's a stalker).

ayrt

[(Anonymous)]

i admittedly haven't looked at zero's other supports so i can't comment on the dialogue myself, but i did reread the article and i realized that the part about the poster complaining about dialogue saying zero "looked feminine" was a misunderstanding on my part.

thanks for pointing that out.

Re: ayrt

[(Anonymous)]

Anon that asked first about it/commented below too

It's okay! Everyone commits mistakes, and I'm personally glad it was cleared up.

Re: da

[(Anonymous)]

DA

I'm the anon above you and yeah, I noticed that too. I don't remember any allusions to Zero's "girly looks" in any of the support translations I've read, and it's also a little strange since Foleo looks far girlier than he does and there's far more focus on his girliness.

Come to think of it, are there any (reliable) translations of this article around? I have been looking in the FE 14 related tags and either I've blocked way too many people lately, or there's next to none actual info about this on them.

Re: da

[(Anonymous)]

SA

* There's next to none actual info in English about this on them (re: the tags). Sorry!

Re: da

[(Anonymous)]

nayrt

op just admitted the complaints about there being dialogue talking about zero looking feminine a mistranslation on their part, so there's that.

Come to think of it, are there any (reliable) translations of this article around? I have been looking in the FE 14 related tags and either I've blocked way too many people lately, or there's next to none actual info about this on them.

yeah, i couldn't find any translations on the article either. however, the fire emblem reddit comm have caught wind about it so it'll probably be a matter of time before someone posts a translation:

https://www.reddit.com/r/fireemblem/comments/3ga7jy/lest_you_think_the_home_market_doesnt_care_about/

Re: da

[(Anonymous)]

ayrt

op just admitted the complaints about there being dialogue talking about zero looking feminine a mistranslation on their part, so there's that.

Yeah, I was writing up the comment itself and hit "enter" after our fellow nonnie stepped in. My bad!

re: the translation. I hope you're right and we'll have one sooner or later. I'm of the "I know they're just starting, but the result could have been better" belief, but I'd also like to see other POV's.

Re: da

[(Anonymous)]

https://www.reddit.com/r/fireemblem/comments/3ga7jy/lest_you_think_the_home_market_doesnt_care_about/ctwgowy

apparently someone else found a translation of the article and posted it on reddit:

Someone who's fluent in Japanese roughly translated the bullet points on the page, so here they are, along with some personal notes.

1) They announced that 'you can marry any of your team members,' but there is only one man and one woman you can have a same-sex marriage with (you can marry all members of the opposite sex though)

2) The two characters open to same-sex marriage, despite only being able to have a same-sex marriage with the main character, can marry any other character of the opposite sex besides the MC (what their sexuality is exactly is unclear; they aren't gay because they can only marry the MC, are they bi if they can only marry one character of the same sex in a game where you can marry off characters with everyone else of the opposite sex?)

3) There's a character who is portrayed as a lesbian, but she is portrayed as a stereotypical 'sex monster' type who indiscriminately hits on heterosexual women

4) The character portrayed as a lesbian cannot marry a woman for some reason. She only has opposite sex partners available (isn't one of the two same-sex marriage options)

5) After scenes that appear like trying to change her from homosexual to heterosexual, there's an event where the character portrayed as a lesbian has an opposite-sex marriage (seemingly shifting her romantic interest from 'women > man who she sees as women > men')

6) The main character in a same-sex marriage cannot have children or raise them (despite child characters being an important gameplay element, and having magic that can put souls in different bodies or fantasy beasts)

The detail for the third point was stuff I've not heard before (Soleil making other female characters draw away from her, how she's 'always saying humiliating things', using the word 'devil/demon' to describe her footsteps as she approaches them). And I hadn't considered the trans angle on the 5 item (being attracted to someone where you perceive them as a gender they don't identify with). But a lot of it is similar to the complaints that western fans expressed. I guess the skeleton invasion of Japan is paying off! /s

They mention several times about Japan's understanding towards sexual minorities lagging behind in comparison to western countries, from someone actually in Japan. Pointing at it and calling it 'cultural differences' doesn't mean that it isn't a problem. And how addressing this lack of understanding through pop culture aimed at young people can help change things, rather than just letting the same prejudices repeat.

At one point they say that you should acknowledge that they tried to provide something for gay players within the Japanese market that has routinely ignored them as an audience (you could point to BL titles or the like but who those are aimed at and how well they do it is another matter altogether). When stuff like this happens, and someone gets it wrong and people criticise it, you get the detractors who decry that no one should bother because 'you can never get it right for these people' or something. But if you're not going to hire LGBT people, the least you can do is listen to what they say and use that to make things better in the future. That's the point of it, and one the site mentions, to deepen understanding. Maybe next time don't just give people who want same-sex marriage one option, include it for other characters so it doesn't look like this character is just 'player-sexual' or something silly like that, maybe don't write a character who runs around proclaiming their love of girls and then can only marry men.

It's not about blaming one game (another thing the site mentions, that this lack of understanding of LGBT people and issues isn't limited to FEif), but pointing at one game as an example and giving suggestions as to how it can be improved is a lot more helpful than just saying 'you should do better'. It can serve as a chance to learn for more than just the makers of this one game, but anyone else watching and listening as well. Things don't change if you just sit quiet and hope maybe they get better, you have to actually say something.

Re: da

[(Anonymous)]

what a hot fucking mess

as a lesbian, i'm pretty goddamn sure now nintendo isn't getting my money for this unless some serious cleanup happens. after they came out saying they were gonna include same sex marriage so they could evolve their standards with how wide and diverse their audience is now, i foolishly expected better than this.

what a crock.

Re: da

[(Anonymous)]

oh boo fucking hoo

at least the media loves lesbians, even if it isn't the best representation.

Re: da

[(Anonymous)]

are you fucking kidding me? gay guys have it everywhere, every way. logo is all gay guys. will & grace wasn't the best representation, but it had all sorts of gay men on it. gay women? all butch and even the butt of plenty of jokes. i've heard people i know talk about homosexuality and they're fine with men!! but not women, they're all so masculine and butch!!

so hey fuck you!

Re: da

[(Anonymous)]

are you really trying to play the oppression olympics anon

really

ayrt

[(Anonymous)]

ahh yes the shining example stated IN THIS CANON THREAD of all lesbians need is the correct man, even via drugging and trickery, to fix them, is somehow stellar representation and "loving" lesbians

you literally have no fucking idea how much the media hates us and how many straight dudes and even straight women react to me horribly based on seeing this shit alone. this is like 90% of all lesbian storylines right now, easily, in both western and eastern media. you rarely if ever see a gay guy have to "prove" he's gay or sleep with a woman or such. it happens but not absolutely anywhere comparable to the rate it happens to queer women.

nobody likes lesbians at fucking all, but they sure do love marketing gimmicks like this game is clearly

so are you blind or just illiterate i'm genuinely curious

[(Anonymous)]

as a lesbian, i hate you.

Re: da

[(Anonymous)]

are you bi lol

Re: da

[(Anonymous)]

Yes, the media loves lesbians.

Specifically lesbians that can be sexualized for straight men to get off to while actual lesbians are an afterthought or alienated.

Re: da

[(Anonymous)]

I was not aware Steven Universe sexualized Ruby and Sapphire or Pearl's feelings for Rose Quartz.

Re: da

[(Anonymous)]

how is 1 lesbian worse than 0 lesbians

Re: da

[(Anonymous)]

because i'd rather have zero representation than shitty representation that perpetuates stereotypes, tbh.

Re: da

[(Anonymous)]

so you didn't mind heather?

also what about the 20000 supports across the series that clearly gay-baited? Also they're guys, but the weird gay bandits are in every single game in the series.

'shitty representation' was already a thing in the series. if the next game is this bad too then yeah i'll be pissed but at this point I'm willing to give them some breathing room, especially since this is obviously blowing up.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/PsychoLesbian

[(Anonymous)]

Because it's a huge stereotype that lesbians are stalkers that don't care about the feelings of the people they have affections for and are thus scary. Stalker Lesbians are common, especially in Japan. A very big example of this is the recent Yuri Kuma Arashi.

I'm tired of my sexuality either being fanservice or scary in media.

Re: da

[(Anonymous)]

I'm the anon who asked if there were translations, and thanks!

It's not about blaming one game (another thing the site mentions, that this lack of understanding of LGBT people and issues isn't limited to FEif), but pointing at one game as an example and giving suggestions as to how it can be improved is a lot more helpful than just saying 'you should do better'. It can serve as a chance to learn for more than just the makers of this one game, but anyone else watching and listening as well. Things don't change if you just sit quiet and hope maybe they get better, you have to actually say something.

I like how this sounds. Complaining on the Internet but not actually telling the people in charge what we think and what they could improve doesn't exactly solve anything, so it's best to be assertive and speak up. And since the Fates localization is in the works, well, we can attempt contacting the team working on it and tell them what's on our minds. It's at least worth a try, and probably good practice if we want to support the Japanese fans who want to give more feedback to IS and Nintendo.

Does the post include any links to the translation itself, hm?

Re: da

[(Anonymous)]

> Complaining on the Internet but not actually telling the people in charge what we think and what they could improve doesn't exactly solve anything, so it's best to be assertive and speak up.
> it's best to be assertive and speak up

...Posting your opinion at all on social media isn't being assertive and speaking up now?

Uh.

+1

[(Anonymous)]

"complaining on the internet" via facebook/twitter/tumblr/etc and gaming news sites during the tomodachi life incident is what convinced nintendo to actually reconsider adding gay marriage to their games to begin with. if there wasn't anyone bitching about anywhere on the internet, then nintendo would have stuck with their original decision to "not get political" and never add gay marriage to their games ever.

until nintendo creates something else to replace club nintendo, "complaining on the internet" is the only best way to let nintendo hear your voice whether you like it or not.

Re: da

[(Anonymous)]

but anon

then they'd actually have to look at the opinions they don't like