rpanons | [D] Oo la la

[D] Oo la la

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Re-posting:
How do I balance his facade and true personality without one outweighing the other? Also other general advice is welcome.

(not sure what canon point to take him from, but probably before he's found out. advice on him both before and after his reveal is welcome though.)

maybe not the most in depth or revealing analysis but i can take a crack

he was transferred to inaba from a larger city due to some undisclosed incident, and he's sensitive about it. like shadow yosuke, he's got a superiority issue; last place he wants to be is in the boonies as some hack's junior partner, since he's smarter and more sophisticated. but interestingly he acts like the role fits him well - he messes around, reveals confidential evidence - because he's smart, thinks he's smarter than this town, and can manipulate people well enough. so his facade personality is kind of like a game of opposites; whatever his gut instinct (snide comment, insulting) is, he'll act on the opposite impulse in public.

so a good actor, observant at picking up responses from other people and going along with it, perceptive, and quick-thinking.

he benefits from the kind of patriarchal system that makes naoto dress as a man - young, smart, male, he gets a lot of boosts in the world and thinks he deserves all of the, he's a cop just to carry a gun and kills a woman because she refuses his advances - he's go problems with emasculation. bitches and whores, you know. so pushing on those issues will make the facade crack a little more than other digs.

but i think it also important to note a few things to avoid writing him off as just a magnificent bastard. when you first meet him, he's running away from a crime scene to throw up - and that might have not been an act. he'd just seen the body of a woman he murdered and first-time killers usually have that kind of guilty gut reaction. and he only killed to cover up the first murder - there are only two real victims the entire game. so he's not a serial killer a la hannibal lector or jeffrey dommer. he didn't kill for sport, no matter how much of a superior complex he had.

plus, in the true end, he does send a letter to them, helping point the team in the final direction. and the letter's tone is more helpful than condescending or mocking. so there's humanity in him, even though he's an arrogant misogynistic jackass.

your analysis is great and i like it a lot, but if i may ask, what leads you to believe that adachi only killed konishi to cover up the first murder?

If I can take a stab at it... Adachi was interested in one woman because she was well known, a celebrity and involved in a scandal. He'd been a fan of hers for some time, and given the chance to approach her privately, he took it forcefully.

Some nobody local girl, whose parent run a liquor store? Doesn't really rate his attention. If she wasn't the first witness to the body's discovery, he probably never would have gone for her.

And through the rest of the game, there's no sign (that I can think of, anyway) that he approaches any other women. The woman he had on a broken pedastal, and the girl he needed to kill to help cover up his tracks. That's it.

Incorrect. When discussing the possibility of Adachi as a suspect, Kanji admits that he recently heard that Adachi called out a girl from his class, a girl unrelated to the case.

i stand corrected! i don't remember that part of the conversation.

Sa

(Anonymous) - 2012-08-19 20:47 (UTC) - Expand

woah what? i do not remember that! are you talking about saki, or someone completely unrelated and new (name?)

also, adachi didn't kill saki to cover any tracks, he killed her because she refused him, and cause he could, iirc.

Sa

(Anonymous) - 2012-08-19 20:50 (UTC) - Expand

ayrt

(Anonymous) - 2012-08-20 00:06 (UTC) - Expand

i agree that adachi doesn't just go around throwing all women he meets into tvs, which is a good point. his murdering is a culmination of a larger pattern of creeping. and i agree that he's more interested in konishi because of the situation than anything inherent to her.

but during the "interrogation", adachi skips right over asking any useful questions to instead imply that she's sleeping with namatame, and that therefore she should sleep with adachi too. he "punishes" her for rejecting him, then laughs over his newfound power and yells "get on your knees and beg and maybe i'll let you out!". these aren't the actions of a logical-minded killer cleaning up after himself - at the very least, he's mixing business and pleasure.

also i can't remember any time he implies that konishi had any actual information on him.

I definitely took note of how he threw up after discovering the body of his first kill, and don't believe, for once, that it was part of the act. I think it was acknowledgement of the gravity of what he had done, and it overwhelming him. So he's not as much of a badass as he thinks he is, imo?

Do you believe he felt any guilt regarding the Dojima family (what happened to Nanako, Dojima specially requesting that he have a stretcher and be taken care of, etc)?
And also how much of it all was actually his true intention and how much was the influence of the fog and being slowly possessed?

Those two questions are what really keep me from playing him post end-game, because it's so unclear. The former I have some thoughts on, but even then it's just head-canon.

i think you have to keep in mind that even though he was possessed, he did want to destroy the entire world himself at one time. adachi's a strange sort of balance where you have to realize at one point he really does want to do all the evil he attempts to do, but is unable to foresee all the consequences that can come from those. he's very impulsive, and when he comes to inaba he's hit a very low point in his life. to bring up an earlier point of how he worked his ass off to make detective, not only that but if what i've seen of the golden's translation, adachi's hit a low point in both his personal and professional lives just prior to coming to inaba, which could very well be a deciding factor in what made him go through with all that he did and want to do it. when he comes to inaba, he's already given up on having the life he's always wanted and thinks himself entitled to have. it's the driving force behind his ressentiment (imo he's a better fit for captain ressentiment than yosuke but then again they do have that in common) and it's why when the investigation team starts to hon in on him he jumps into the tv - "as if i'd walk into a death trap like that" - with everything he has. he's given up on life completely at that point, when before he hadn't quite made up his mind.

back to his impulses: he went from approaching yamano to accidentally throwing her into the tv and just running with it. i don't know about you, but i can't think of all that many people who'd just be cool with discovering they have supernatural tv world portal powers. not only that but he threw another human being inside, and he's just like oh hey that's cool. he essentially wings it the entire time, doing whatever he pleases because he can. and that brings me to my next point: he doesn't realize what he does until after the fact. a good example of that would be when he discovers yamano's body. and yeah, he definitely didn't expect it, so the shock overwhelms him and he's gotta run off and puke.

another example would be with nanako, and to give you my own thoughts on the dojima situation, there is a bit of hinting that he does feel bad for the situation he puts her and her father through. although i don't think it entirely hits him until dojima orders the stretcher for him and he learns about it, there are other moments like when dojima mentions taking her out of the hospital, adachi's like "HEYYY THAT'S NOT SUCH A GOOD IDEA because of the fog and all" that go to show you that there is a part of him that cares for the dojima family. because really, he didn't have to mention that, and even though it's consistent with his "public self", that public self is still an instinctive part of who he is as well. he's the only one in the town who knows 100% for a fact that the fog is dangerous, even the investigation team isn't sure of it.

to help with the public vs private self, i like to think about the theme of rise's shadow and how she had to come to terms with risette being a part of herself. "there is no real me." adachi's the same way, just he's not a young idol whose public self has that much public reception. his private self is as much a part of himself as his public self, and have i mentioned i really like using that terminology? because i do. it's a really good way to talk about the two most apparent sides of adachi.

and post end-game is very unclear on a lot of things, but personally i like it that way.

edit: I WANTED TO ADD SOME CLARIFICATION TO THE NANAKO THING and add that i'm p sure nanako was an accident but that's just a personal headcanon of mine that i might've borrowed from another adachi player so that's some of the backstory behind what i was getting at and i'm going to stop talking now

Edited (i just can't shut up and then i fucked up some html) 2012-08-20 02:41 (UTC)

Thanks for all your input! If you don't mind me asking, where is it you play? Wouldn't mind keeping an eye on you, you seem to have his character down well ~~and I'd like a chance to play against a good an active Adachi as much as i'd like to play him myself.~~

haha i don't mind at all. i'm at

zodion! i used to play under the username

foggiestidea but recently made the switch to this journal when i apped back into the game

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(Anonymous) - 2012-08-20 06:27 (UTC) - Expand

Re: OP

(Anonymous) - 2012-08-24 22:09 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

magatsu - 2012-08-25 03:47 (UTC) - Expand

disclaimer: i don't know too much about the golden so this may be partly or totally invalidated by the game.

an important thing to remember is that adachi has a self-absorbed and entitled worldview that he thinks is right. pre-reveal he's not going to go around shouting "bitches and whores", but that doesn't mean it can't reflect in his behavior in a subtle way. think about the attitudes that he holds as truth ("it's the world that really killed them", "just another worthless bitch") and how they'd color his perception of reality and other people.

while adachi seems to see it that way, especially pre-reveal, i don't think "facade vs true personality" is the best way to frame the dichotomy. it's more like the "public vs private self" that each of the IT members confront when facing their shadows. adachi is still a person who studied hard to become a cop, who likes magic tricks, who buys too much cabbage. that's in no way mutually exclusive from trying to rape, and succeeding in murdering, other people. it gives him more options for engaging with other characters, too.

as a side-note, even though adachi is manipulative, he focuses on short-term satisfaction instead of a long-term game-plan. most of the game can be described as "adachi makes evil and stupid life choices" (killing yamano after publicly visiting the inn, killing konichi in the police station itself, the first letter). he's clever, but he's no master schemer. if you take him from before the car crash he'll be even more so, as he hasn't experienced any negative consequences to his actions. he's still riding high on his power/control trip.

sorry, that became teal deer... i hope that helped, nonny.

(I'm actually considering holding off playing him till after Golden comes out in english and I play through it, since the social link could offer a lot of insight. On the other hand I'm terribly impatient, ha.)

"public vs private self"
That is a much better way of describing it, thank you. My whole worry revolves around exactly that, that I don't want his public self and private self to be so mutually exclusive that they could almost be two different people.
I've heard the interpretation that his incompetence is more a result of him giving up trying, and then him rolling with it, rather than him being some master actor and playing the role to cover up his private nature (though obviously some acting is involved, but it becomes more a convenience in the end then its original intention)

Anyways I am sidetracking but you've been super helpful anon, thank you!

ha, that's obviously the interpretation i lean towards too, but it's hard to prove it one way or the other so it's pretty much headcanon territory.

as long as you focus on the underlying attitudes and their external expression, you'll probably be okay! many people have supposed conflicts in their behavior that make sense if you know their whole deal. someone can be a rapist and still be very charming, make lots of friends, be perfectly nice to most women, etc. and pre-reveal he'll still think in terms of "fake vs true shadow self", so he'll be... less integrated and more focused on hiding his dark side, if that makes sense.

adachi is a villain i enjoy seeing around so i hope you have fun with him!

anon has pretty much covered it, but there's this one thing I see a lot and it bugs me, so!

-just like with everyone else's shadows, you can't take what his says as the absolute, definitive truth. In particular, the part where he says he became a police officer just for the gun - that could have been a part of it, but then why he didn't he just... stay a regular police officer? Instead, he's reached the rank of detective by 27. That? Requires an unbelievable amount of work.

...which kind of leads into okay, he studies incredibly hard, works his butt off, finally reaches the rank of detective - when he fucks up (in his own estimation it was ~just a little mistake~ but it probably a lot bigger than that since we all know how adachi's estimation of himself is majorly skewed in his favor) and gets sent to the boonies. Years of work and effort, gone. Wasted. Just like that.

and so the chains that held his inner asshole more or less in place were thrown to the wind.

oh yeah and when it comes to playing his nice, public self, keep the stereotypical Nice Guy in mind, most importantly the part where they honestly believe some of their entitled, fucked up ideas are normal and not realize they shouldn't be shared with the class? He's far better in terms of acting than most, since a lot of his lines are only creepy/set off alarm bells in retrospect, but if you wanted to leave clues for other characters that something isn't quite right, that'd be a great way to do it.

...and this turned into a whole lot more than just one thing! hope it helps.

I didn't think about his ranking, but that's a good point. Detective's a big hurdle rank for police, and he reached it.

It does, thank you!
I always thought it was himself, not his shadow, when talking about why he became an officer. It being his shadow makes a lot more sense (though that means it still holds some semblance of truth. a reference to the power being a police officer/detective would give him?)

Yeah, probably! and also, I think, because police officer guarantees more excitement/less paperwork than the career choice of salaryman and the rank of detective comes with a sort of... prestige, and implied respect. And less bosses.

nothing to really add here, other anons did a hell of a job. gave me some pointers as well. good luck to you, op! may you be blessed with cabbages.

Does anyone have thoughts on why he sent the warning letters?
Wouldn't his 'game' have ended if the team stopped saving people?

iirc, he sent those out after it was becoming clear that nanako was about to get involved. or at least one of them did. it's been a while since i played. point is that adachi was responsible for a lot of shitty things, but being responsible for the death of a child who has been nothing but nice to him might be one too much for his soul. i think she was honestly a huge glitch in his plans. his game was going after people he wanted to see taken down a peg, brought beneath his level so he could feel more superior. nanako was not that at all.

I don't think so? Nanako doesn't show up on the Midnight Channel till after the second threat letter is sent (later in the evening after it's recived.) I forget when the first one happens though.

technically, nanako showed up on the midnight channel the night before the second letter showed up. it's just that none of the it figured out it was her.

first letter was october 20th, a little bit after the last day to rescue naoto and immediately after a week of midterms.

[D] Oo la la

Tohru Adachi // Persona 4

Re: Tohru Adachi // Persona 4

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Re: Tohru Adachi // Persona 4

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first anon