rpanons | Lesbian sex leads me to salvation every day

Lesbian sex leads me to salvation every day

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Eh, I think we'll have to agree to disagree on that front then, if only because Kristoph is not very subtle when he's being passive aggressive. He opted to keep Phoenix close solely to keep an eye on him and his actions, and had people known beforehand that Kristoph envied/hated Phoenix (and they would surely notice), it would come off as very odd for him to suddenly play the role as friend to him.

Also, don't forget, despite how much coverage Phoenix got, aside from the Judge and the prosecutors he won over, he's very much seen as a joke in-universe (up til T&T and Dual Destinies, at least). Every prosecutor that pops up is ready to take him down/call him out for what he is. Hell, even in T&T, I'm willing to bet most of that case was kept hush hush because it was so ridiculously supernatural. The biggest cases that likely drew attention to Phoenix were those involving von Karma, Gant, and Engarde. The latter probably got the most public attention because lol celebrities and kidnapping. But anyway my point is yeah, Phoenix was a big shot, but not really a threat to Kristoph in the long run.

RE for Zak, again, it's just a little too sloppy for me to believe that's all there is to it. After all, while Kristoph planned for Vera to die via nail polish (or the stamp, I forget which), that sure took its sweet time, and he didn't try to force it. Don't get me wrong, he did what he could in his impulsiveness to off Zak, but it's just so contrasting to the rest of his careful actions, I wouldn't doubt that there was another motive behind things, and sadly we'll never get to see what it is.

Yeah, I'll have to disagree on that. I feel that Kristoph is often seen as more obvious of a villain than he actually is because he gets revealed so early on in the game. He isn't as seething with passive agressiveness at the beginning as he is after his involvement in the case is revealed and he realizes it was all according to Phoenix's keikaku. And he managed to keep everyone in pretty much the dark for seven years. If Klavier had known that Kristoph absolutely despised Phoenix then wouldn't he have started to doubt Kristoph far earlier?

And Kristoph also justifies standing up and befriending Phoenix, who he hadn't met before the Gramarye aftermath, with "It was my brother who was responsible for putting you in that position, after all." So even if people knew he had disliked him it could be played up as him realizing Phoenix isn't that bad of a person and feeling bad for him etc. It would fit the gentlemanly character he keeps up. Likewise, as a gentleman he wouldn't probably let his disdain show so obviously.

The nail polish vas for Vera and the stamp was for Drew. But the difference between them and Zak is that the Mishams didn't know Kristoph's identity. Of course they knew a lot of potentially dangerous things, but those couldn't be tied to Kristoph immediately. And even when the stamp originally failed the nail polish trap would still be there. He could afford to let them live longer with what they knew. And the reason for the sloppy way he killed Zak is still that he was in a hurry. He saw Zak randomly after seven years and had no idea if he might ever see him again, he simply didn't have any time to plan anything better. Zak's knowledge of Kristoph's involvement was far more dangerous than the Mishams knowing someone ordered a forgery. Zak telling someone just "Hey Kristoph Gavin was my lawyer!" was enough to tie him into the whole forgery mess all over again.

Oh, and I think I kinda realized/remembered why I keep coming back to Phoenix being a key person in Kristoph's motive. In AJ Phoenix is constantly the person Kristoph has the most anger towards, even in his final breakdown he screams Phoenix's name. And the whole game seems to revolve around the weird relationship the two had, so to me it works out thematically. Kind of like the whole Dahlia - Mia/the Fey family thing in T&T.

That's the thing though, Zak had zero idea Kristoph even had a forgery prepared. No one did, and it's not even proven Kristoph is responsible for it til the last present-day case. If Kristoph had remained Zak's lawyer? Yeah, I can see the worry, but that isn't the case. As far as everyone knew, Zak included, Phoenix alone was responsible for the forgery. And if we're going that far, wouldn't it have made more sense for Kristoph to kill Trucy? She was the one that handed the forgery over to him. Kristoph being Zak's previous lawyer (or rather, his considered lawyer) is zero basis for anyone to suspect him of a thing.

Also don't forget, Kristoph is the one who warned Klavier about Phoenix. Really, he should have known something was up then, especially with Kristoph suddenly feeling pity for phoenix. It's a wonder Klavier never questioned him for seven years.

Anyway, I 100% agree that Phoenix was the key in Kristoph's motive, I'd just like to know if there's more to it than him stealing Kristoph's thunder, because that alone is a flimsy premise for a grudge that deep, and the rest of the facts don't add up.

Oh, that's simple. Phoenix became Zak's lawyer just a day before the trial. He had no time to get the forgery done himself. That's how they ultimately prove his innocence at the end of AJ. Most people didn't know that until the trial, but Zak was one of the few who would because, well, he was there when he hired Phoenix.

Ah, true, though there was still nothing Zak could have said outside of "he used to be my lawyer" that could have condemned Kristoph. Really, leaving him alive would have been the better option, since he was essentially "guilty" due to running away and practically didn't exist anymore, but what can you do.

AJ is so full of unanswered questions and plotholes though, we can all run with whatever interpretations we please until proven otherwise (and we won't be. Because Capcom hates game four).

Maybe it wasn't so much Kristoph felt a need to get rid of Zak, but it was more meant as revenge against Zak and Phoenix. Kill Zak for what he did in the past in such a way that Phoenix would be the suspect and then defend Phoenix to ensure Phoenix gets a guilty. Zak is dead, Phoenix gets a death sentence for a crime he didn't commit and no one finds out Kristoph did it. Perfect revenge on the two of them.

It makes sense when you consider the fact that after the mess with the forgery, Kristoph purposely made it look like he was Phoenix's ally. Why bother to befriend Phoenix when it would have been perfectly normal to turn his back on the now former defense attorney like everyone who wasn't his friends did. He obviously wanted to gain Phoenix's trust and truly had little reason to. It actually has a lot in common with what Von Karma did to get revenge on Edgeworth as far as how things were carried out, so it wouldn't be a surprise if Kristoph's plan was very similar to Von Karma's.

The only kink in that is that he clearly was gunning to pin the blame on Olga, though. Or at the very least, that's what he was steering Apollo to do. Of course he knew she didn't do it, but he didn't care. He didn't try to spin the crime back on Phoenix until Phoenix begin to egg Apollo on and imply that there was another person at the scene of the crime.

Otherwise, if he really wanted Phoenix to get the guilty verdict, I doubt he would have been as helpful as he was during the trial (like other anon pointed out, Kristoph really does seem like a good, if passive aggressive imo, mentor at first, and acts as if he's genuinely on your side). It's all very weird overall.

There's a simple enough explanation for it. Even if he wants to ensure Phoenix is found guilty, he also doesn't want to lose the reputation his law office has because his rookie screwed it. It would reflect poorly upon Kristoph since it is his office and he was there providing counsel to his rookie. No one would expect Apollo to perform well the first time, but they would expect Kristoph to make sure Apollo didn't miss anything obvious. And with the type of crime that was, a closed room murder, the obvious tactic is to pin the blame on the witness.

Don't forget, Apollo had trouble with Olga's testimony and didn't catch on that she was lying. Phoenix pointed that fact out, not Kristoph. Kristoph may have suggested to pin it on Olga, but he sure didn't help to make that stick. In fact, there was a huge hole in Olga's testimony, she said little about the murder itself, she didn't explain where she was when Phoenix called the police, and didn't explain why Phoenix called and she didn't since the sensible action for a murderer would be to flee the scene, not call the cops. Apollo missing that is understandable, it was his first trial and he was seriously nervous. Kristoph, however, lacks that excuse. He's a seasoned defense attorney who should know that those three missing things makes her look really suspicious and if he was really making an effort to find his supposed friend not guilty, then he should have mentioned that to Apollo.

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