rpanons | Ya whatever

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because "canon" yaoi

that's literally it

why is canon is quotations

like yes people throw shinji's entire pre-kaworu characterization down the drain for yaoi-version kawoshins!!! but kawoshin as is depicted in nge and rebuild is very much canon

you could argue shinji loved kaworu, sure.

but it was also one-sided and rebuild even made a point of showing that kaworu was using him too, just to a lesser degree than everyone else. kaworu is barely even a character in the original so you can interpret that any number of ways, especially considering kaworu is an angel and doesn't really have a standard concept of human love to begin with.

and now i'm going to get dogpiled for being a homophobe but mutual kawoshin has never been canon, ever. sorry fangirls.

"kaworu is an angel and doesn't really have a standard concept of human love to begin with."

you missed the point of eoe, congratulations

feel free to take your yaoi goggles off and present an actual argument.

though considering how many people still think eoe had a "bad" ending i'd say most people didn't get the movie at all, no.

i'm not interested in wasting my time presenting an argument to someone who ends a "kawoshin is not canon" explanation with the words "sorry, fangirls"

you can listen to the part where kaworu and rei say "we are the words i love you" fifty millions times if you want

kaworu is saying is that he *represents* the words "I love you" and what they mean to someone. that's what he is to shinji. the first person who said "i love you" to him and it was a powerful thing. i don't think you can use that scene as definitively say that kaworu loves shinji normally, like a human because it's not at all about kaworu and his feelings.

there's at least one supplementary book and one game anno had a hand in that both confirm that kaworu loves shinji, anon.

being an angel doesn't change any of that, especially not when there's materials that point out that his behavior is really close to that of humans.

being an angel DOES change that because it was a huge plot point that the entire reason angels and humans were fighting, other than over lilith, was because they didn't know how to understand and communicate in the first place. anime canon > supplementary canon, especially sketchy sources like books and games translated by fans and ESPECIALLY when it's contradicting something 100% established in the original canon as true. kaworu does not act like a human. he acts like an angel.

i don't hate m/m and kaworu/shinji is whatever. but if you're going to keep insisting it's canon you're going to need to present a better argument than there totally being a throwaway line in side material that confirms it.

Word of God is more solid than your interpretation.

vague reference to supplementary material of questionable accuracy and intent that you can't even source properly =/= word of god

try harder

If the creator worked on it, yes, it is Word of God. Whether it's supplementary or not doesn't mean anything, it just means that it's not main storyline stuff.

thaaaat is still not what word of god means, no. you can be involved in the production of something on a very basic level but that doesn't mean you're directly supervising everything that goes into it. it's why you have dumb shit in fandoms that's clearly NOT canon slipping through the cracks and yes, then there's word of god to correct it. and that's not even getting into the "some canon is more canon than other canon" stuff that japan pulls all the time.

this is just going in circles so until we see a source on this, the anime stands on its own for what it is and i've nothing more to say.

you're so funny

"Sketchy sources likes books and games translated by fans," you say. How about some commentary from someone who's read those sources untranslated, then?

The materials that anon mentioned don't actually contradict the main series. Kaworu/Tabris is unique among the angels in that he isn't an all-new life, he holds the soul of a carrier of the First Ancestral Race (specifically Adam), who are definitely capable of regular emotions (not to mention that both angels and humans originated from them). The reasons angels and humans fight isn't because the angels don't know how to understand and communicate with humans (several do display an ability to communicate and try to understand), it's because both forgot their shared origin and saw each other as threats because of that.

Leliel, in Kaworu's scenario of Neon Genesis Evangelion 2: Another Cases, points out how similar he's behaving to humans as a result of his interactions with them and his interest in them. He might still act off compared to normal humans, but he mirrors them extremely closely, even down to things like inner weaknesses (leading to having to confront them in his scenario, something specifically noted as a human custom).

Not to mention that he gets a maze of the heart scene (like most of the human playable characters) that's entirely about his emotions and how he feels about getting to be around others, presented like the introspective parts of episode 25 and 26 of the anime.

As far as Kaworu loving Shinji goes? Focusing on only the anime and materials related to it, Kaworu's description in the Another Cases guidebook outright says that his feelings of love for Shinji, who's the same sex as him, are strangely strong (同性のシンジに対する愛情が異様に高い), and IIRC, he starts off with fairly high affection toward him, unlike most characters.

Shinji's scenarios also let him try to talk Kaworu out of carrying out his role as Tabris. Choosing a specific set of responses leads to Shinji asking what Kaworu thinks of him, and Kaworu answers that he likes/loves him, with context + voice acting making it clear that he means that in the romantic and not the platonic sense (screenshot: http://i.imgur.com/FcfLGor.png ). Keep in mind the game's scenarios are based on interviews with Anno and scripts they didn't have the time to include in the actual anime.

The All About Kaworu supplementary book compares Shinji's response to seeing Kaworu's form in EoE during instrumentality to a whisper directed at a lover (using a word for people mutually in love) that he'd lost before (page 43, "予め失われた恋人に向ける囁きのように。").

The second draft for episode 24 (the closest one to the final product), published as an extra included with the September '96 issue of JUNE, at one point before things go downhill, includes a kiss initiated by Kaworu ("カヲルの顔がスーッとシンジの顔に近づく。カヲル、シンジと口づけを交わす。シンジ、拒むことなく、自然に受け入れる自分に気づく。妙に冷静な気持ちになって、天井の明りを見ている。")

Episode 24 itself has Kaworu's dialogue during the shower scene (particularly the "そう。好意に値するよ。"- "好意？" - "好きってことさ。" exchange), which was noted to be Kaworu saying he loves Shinji (for example, in an interview with Anno in the NGE JUNE book 残酷な天使のように). It's even pointed out by Shinji himself after Kaworu's death, with the same line that confirms his feelings for Kaworu ("カヲル君が好きだって言ってくれたんだ…僕のこと…初めて…初めて人から好きだっていわれたんだ… 僕に似てたんだ…綾波にも…好きだったんだ。")

Is that enough sourced information, or should I go on?

i'm not even in this fandom but damn ayrt got served

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Ya whatever

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