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Wait, especially abyss? Natalia was jsut as useful a healer as Tear, and unlike Tear she had actual offensive power. Anise was the only one without any real use, and she still wasn't bad or anything.

Anise's actually a pretty decent tank. She just doesn't fit my playstyle.

honestly tear was more of a useless healer to me than natalia because at least natalia could long range heal and i never had tear in my party long enough to expand her circles.

Actually, I meant that Jade-Natalia-Tear plus whatever of the other three you liked best was really the only viable party combination. Swapping Tear or Natalia is a death sentence unless you're already over-leveled and cutting out Jade absolutely guts your firepower.

So I guess it's just not one absolute party combination, but it's still really limited. Much more so than the other games, ime.

my main party was luke/guy/tear/jade and i handled the game just fine without a second healer. i used anise more often than natalia. i suppose it's all a matter of preference.

but i agree that jade is pretty much a necessity unless you're overleveled, and even then having him is a big boost.

never had a problem with that team and i always play on hard.

natalia was downright useless for me idk and i ran most of the game with a full offense party; my only source of heals and revives were from green chambered self buffs, center being op, guardian field, and later on anise with the resurrection doll

i played through the game on hard from the get go without any level grinding, and i never saw why nixing tear or natalia is allegedly a death sentence. they still regain tp post-battle despite not being part of the active party and by the time you start getting worn down past what steel/center/lucky/guardian field can spot heal there's plenty tp for tear to toss out a healing circle from the menu and bring everyone to full again. and if you need a bit more touching up, first aid does the trick.

natalia brought nothing to the table as far as offense went because her patk was downright awful; lower than jade's by endgame and, well, when your attack is lower than the mage's then you know something's wrong... she doesn't have much to do between heals and setting up revive, because buffs? tear's fortune's arc's extension gives you permanent ones until you die. and if you're doing well enough to not need healing then tear adjusts very easily to an offensive strat by way of holy lance spam. natalia's contributions on the other hand, can be more disruptive to a melee combo for less damage output. i felt like they tossed as many supportive role things into her as they could but really didn't make her shine in it and gutted her with high tp cost spells and a low tp pool to boot, so while she can theoretically fit into any party composition she's just... unnecessary.

but even with how superfluous/lacking i found natalia, i don't feel that abyss's party composition was limited. considering that the game was very doable without a single dedicated healer in the active party... or how it was doable even if you had a full party of caster-hybrids (natalia/tear/jade/anise), it seemed plenty flexible to me, with the exception being that yeah, if you don't have jade (or at least a lategame anise) in your party your dps was pretty well gutted. blame the devs for making all the major enemies high on physical defense, i guess.

symphonia on the other hand, ugh. raine definitely felt like the only viable party healer there, and if you didn't have her in the party you felt absolutely gutted in battle. regal's gimmick of distance healing was ridiculous because you heal a whopping 1 hp if he's far away enough to get the spell off in the first place, kratos isn't ever going to heal anyone other than lloyd unless you manually force him to, and zelos... abyss's attack animations are somewhat repetitive, but i do like the fact that none of the characters was as awkward/clunky in controls as the ones in symphonia.

of course vesperia is my forevergame but i'm not even going to start on that.

vesperia best tales

I can say I honestly never used Raine in my party outside of major boss fights. The rest of the time I used Lloyd/Colette/Zelos (or Kratos)/Regal and they always did just fine.

symphonia was practically boss fight after boss fight though. :( i agree raine wasn't necessary at all for the day to day random mobs, but fights where damage isn't concentrated on the 'main tank/distraction' and everyone's taking heavy damage seemed a lot more common in symphonia than the other western releases.

i love how op said not to talk about abyss yet here we are

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