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See the thing about "actually reading" this pesterlog is that all of Kanaya's lines about being offended by his overtures come after these two lines:

GA: Why Do I Got To
GA: I Dont Got To And Every Time You Take My Help For Granted I Feel Like I Got To A Little Less

Which very explicitly states that she has helped them out in this capacity in the past, but has become increasingly frustrated with the phenomenon, coming down from a previous sympathetic stance. And likewise I find it hard to say she didn't perform auspisticism with Vriska and Tavros as well considering the explicit use of the command Kanaya: Mediate. Mediating is what she is doing, and it is the main reason she is bothering with Tavros at all. The presence of auspisticism here is exactly as explicit as that between Snowman, Doc Scratch, and Spades Slick: Mediation labelled elsewhere by a club.

She's helped Eridan, that does not mean she is in or has ever been in that quadrant with him and Vriska. That line does not have to be solely about this quadrant either, Eridan asks for help for other things in canon too and she could just as easily be referencing every instance of helping him there and getting ignored there too. This is in no way a confirmation of her being in a quadrant with Eridan, if anything her talking about this in such a manner indicates that she doesn't want to be in a relationship with him and hasn't been in one with him.

Her rejection for being in that quadrant is still a stronger indicator of help.

Yep. Kanaya is just helpful. It's in character for her to assist people if she can.

That wasn't meant to imply quadrants were involved.

her having provided him help in the past does not by any means indicate that this help was in an ashen direction, or that it was in helping him deal with vriska

as for the tavros situation, think about what she's doing there for a second. she's got someone telling her that her moirail is bullying them (and kanaya and tavros are already established as friends, tavros even says that he came up with rufio at her suggestion prior to the game), she pacifies vriska and gets her to quit picking on him. this is entirely within the bounds of a moirallegiance, especially since she wouldn't even have recognized any black solicitation in vriska's actions at that point. she probably figured her to be exerting her superiority over a lowblood, as she tends to do

it's worth considering that the whole point of that one is that her actions weren't sufficiently ashen enough to actually establish that quadrant, and she never entered into either because she never wanted them

I'd say it's pretty obvious that help is ashen in nature because they are talking about helping him deal with Vriska.

CA: kan make her talk to me do somethin
GA: Who
CA: your no good connivvin fuckin backstabbin girl crush thats wwho
GA: Overstating Our Relationship Wont Make Me Feel Very Cooperative
GA: Its Paler Red Than That Ok
CA: pshhhhhh that is a fuckin laugh and you knoww it evveryone does
CA: so help me out tell her to talk to me i think she blocked me you got to
GA: Why Do I Got To
GA: I Dont Got To And Every Time You Take My Help For Granted I Feel Like I Got To A Little Less
CA: wwhatEVVER you are so the vvillage twwo wwheel devvice wwhen it comes to auspisticing
CA: you cant let a grudge go by you wwont stick your busy stem betwwixt so get wwith the program fussyfangs

As for Tavros, "established as friends" is a tricky thing. We never see Tavros and Kanaya directly talk. They are in the mass dreamlog together, but exchange no lines. We only hear them tell others that she suggested he personify his self esteem, and that he's indicated Vriska hasn't been building him ramps. The main other interaction they have involves impromptutations, and Vriska describes her chainsawing him as looking distinctly like she was taking something out on him. Vriska interprets it as her getting back at him because he went for Vriska instead of for her; the subtext, "getting back at him because Vriska went at him instead of for her", is fairly obvious. So Kanaya has no described interactions with Tavros -- if I'm missing any, please let me know -- outside of things exclusively to do with Vriska. Kanaya does not pacify Vriska; she mediates. There's a reason the page is called Kanaya: Mediate. Kanaya's action here is far from calming: She is threatening to spill the contents of a toilet onto Vriska's head. There's a reason the page is not labelled as "Kanaya: Pacify".

So basically I'd really like to see you revisit the point that "the only actual canon example of a typical auspistice is scratch between spades and snowman". This is our proof of such: Exhibit A. Now, how is this more proof than Exhibit B. Hussie is explicitly holding up Vriska, Kanaya, and Tavros as an example of auspisticism. Scratch could have been perfectly available for him to do so with, if he so chose; after all, Snowman and Spades are used for the example of kismeses! But he uses Kanaya's auspisticeships for the quadrant diagrams.

no, it isn't obvious, it's an assumption, especially given that she wouldn't have been acting officially in that quadrant if he was trying to convince her to. kanaya is a very helpful girl and does a lot of things for people, and eridan is the type of person to take all of them for granted. this, whether it's repetitive of previous requests or not, is just one more example on that pile.

moirallegiance takes many forms, and a long-distance one would require even more. karkat has shoosh-paps? well, kanaya has the threat of an upended toilet. she wasn't necessarily trying to calm vriska there, but pacifying her. there is a difference, and being vriska's moirail would largely involve containing her more often than calming her. the purpose of it is to keep her from causing too great a level of harm, that's what moirails do.

you want to know the real big difference between those two situations? one of them was successful. scratch sees snowman and spades snogging, he breaks them up, beats the shit out of spades, and makes him kill her. kanaya sees vriska kissing tavros? she flipped a bunch of tables and cut off all contact. or did you really think the main motivation for her disappointment was to find her attempted auspisticism had failed? i'm pretty sure she wouldn't even have been aware there was a need for one until then, and by the time she did she was too disillusioned to care.

the thing about the diagrams? they're an expository example, a hypothetical. obviously spades, snowman, and scratch couldn't be used since we weren't as familiar with the dynamic between those characters. we did get a glimpse at how vriska interacts with tavros and kanaya, and from there could imagine how it may play out if they were properly mediated between, but we don't. that whole exposition takes place directly after that is the exact thing that doesn't happen. the accompanying text even goes out of its way to detail cases, like this one, where imbalanced black pairings may be formed due to the failure of an auspistice to insert themselves in the situation. the appearance of a diagram in an exposition does not outweigh the actual canon scenes themselves.

Eridan asks for Kanaya's help regarding dealing with Vriska and then she talks about how frustrated he is with his requests for help. Assuming is required, but not a whole lot of it.

As I've said repeatedly, in that instance Kanaya seems to be mediating, the action of the auspistice rather than the moirail, which would suddenly explain the sudden lack of simple calming and cuddling. Contrast that log with Kanaya: meddle with moirail, where she is much more accomodating and kind regarding Vriska and her faults, and where Vriska herself and her personality is discussed much more, rather than simply practical discussion of dealings with Tavros.

I suppose we're looking at the diagrams and surrounding exposition differently, then, and this is the main source of our dispute. I view the relationship between Vriska, Kanaya, and Tavros as an auspisticeship that failed - for the reasons you mention, such that Kanaya was excessively distraught when she actually saw Vriska kissing Tavros. Your evaluation of the same situation is that it didn't qualify as an auspisticeship in the first place, if I'm reading this right? But I think calling the quadrants a flat out hypothetical is going far. They're expository, yes; and their purpose as exposition would be reduced if they weren't accurate, wouldn't it? I just don't really get what they would have to do to qualify as canon in the quadrant for you. Compare Karkat and Terezi, who are canonized mostly by oblique references to a past flushed rendezvous and exchanges of hearts. Are they not canon matesprits? This is a genuine question. Exposition is supposed to supplement our interpretation of the xenoromantic transpirings going on in the actual canon scenes themselves; in other words, they're supposed to tell us that Kanaya's mediating is in fact this alien art called auspisticism.

what my point is, considering the general acceptance that being in one quadrant with a person doesn't allow you to be in another with them, if you asked kanaya whether she was auspisticizing between tavros and vriska, what do you really think she'd say?

or, explained another way, it's like

serkets and

caprihorn were discussing below. the potential for a quadrant does not mean that the quadrant was actually formed. and the reason that one never crossed over from potential to legitimate is because kanaya didn't want to participate in it in that fashion, not once she realized what it really was.

There can be mediating without quadrants. Jade got between Karkat and Past Karat in a chat, and no one except maybe Nepeta saw ashen potential. But Nepeta sees romance everywhere, so who cares.

Re-read that chat log linked below. Eridan tried three times in the same conversation to get Kanaya to be his auspistice and she unquestionably rejects him every time. She doesn't want it. Canon doesn't support it. Maybe she helped out in the past, but that's what she does. She likes to meddle. It doesn't mean she's just anybody's ashen whore, and especially not Eridan's.

Re: Terezi and Karkat. No, they are not canon matesprits. Again, potential does not equal actual quadrant. They are both flushed for each other, but Karkat and Terezi are both cagey with their emotions, and Terezi repeatedly gets irritated with Karkat for not getting why she wanted to show him Prospit, or why she was upset when Dave died, etc etc. She complains about him to Dave, too. They dance around each other, and she gets very frustrated with the fact that he refuses to acknowledge their relationship.

Every Karkat or Terezi roleplayer I have ever seen or played with agrees with this, and in every game I've seen their matespritship has to be built up to, which usually takes forever because Karkat is nearly incapable of admitting genuine feelings.

Yes, exposition is important. You can assume Sollux<3Aradia was official, and later Sollux<3Feferi, but those were much more blatant examples. As the others have said before me, Kanaya repeatedly rejects Eridan, just like all the other trolls and a couple of the humans do.

I mostly agree, except I'm still not entirely sold on Sollux<3Aradia. But it's not like I'd care if people wanted to play it or anything, there's enough canon to make it believable, so back to the stuff I actually wanted to comment on. Karkat and Terezi are definitely interested in each other, or at least they were before all this weirdness with human kids went down, but I wouldn't call them canon. Terezi even makes roundabout statements to Dave about Karkat's inability to take some initiative or even admit anything beyond text hearts. And Karkat, of course, claims there never was a thing and seems to be leaning more toward Jade near the end of things anyway.

(and as a side note, the only reason Karkat in SC is less cagey with Terezi now is that he went through this once already :V)

No it's actually because you're way ooc and I'm reporting you to the mods tbh

BUT YEAH I guess you could really say Aradia<3Sollux wasn't a Thing, and you could even argue Sollux and Fef were moirails. They never explicitly said matesprits, did they? And a feelings jam sounds kind of moirail-y.

N-NO... (bah)

Well, Feferi did kiss him, and when they were glubbing in the horn pile she totally gave him a <3 and he got all goofy and smiley, so I assumed it was flushed.

But I honestly don't ~ship~ either hardcore, and there's enough canon to back up either. Also I don't play any of those characters, so my opinion on the matter and fifty cents are worth roughly one doughnut at 7-11. :V

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